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BulliBill Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004 Posts: 4572 Location: St Charles, MO
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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Thanks "Sled",
So I have 25hp engine # -1-0423XXX (May 1952?) and according to your info I should have a seamed fan shroud on my engine. Thankfully I have one that I bought from Christian G. back in 1999... Thanks for the info!
Bill Bowman _________________ I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6179
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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BulliBill wrote: |
Thanks "Sled",
So I have 25hp engine # -1-0423XXX (May 1952?) and according to your info I should have a seamed fan shroud on my engine. Thankfully I have one that I bought from Christian G. back in 1999... Thanks for the info!
Bill Bowman |
Bill, I have to correct myself as I thought about it a bit longer and realized that engine number had to be incorrect as I've seen earlier cars with smooth shrouds. I believe the changed happened some time in April or May, so your car would most likely have a smooth shroud. My progressive refinements mentions nothing about the shroud change so ill keep digging. _________________ drive your split. |
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mikeandkirsti Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009 Posts: 286 Location: EU
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:54 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
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lurkinstock Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006 Posts: 415 Location: n. ga.
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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My March 12th 52' car has a smooth fan shroud. So consistent with what's been mentioned. Thanks _________________ " Southern Comfort Vintage Volks "
**The Grand Ole Dubs of the South**
52 split
59 single cab |
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mikeandkirsti Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009 Posts: 286 Location: EU
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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Virtanen´s very original Azur Blau Split is built on 11 January 1952 and still has the seamed shroud which is original to the car.
Change took place between 11 January 1952 and 12 March 1952.
Anybody with an original February car? |
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BulliBill Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004 Posts: 4572 Location: St Charles, MO
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:42 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill _________________ I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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mikeandkirsti Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009 Posts: 286 Location: EU
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:01 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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BulliBill wrote: |
mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill |
It is different from the later 36bhp/30hpDIN shround. It is unique to 1952-1953 25hp engine. In my opinion the only correct shroud for a May 1952 engine is the 25 hp smooth shroud. Putting a seamed shroud on you engine makes no sense unless you are customizing it and do not care about originality |
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BulliBill Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004 Posts: 4572 Location: St Charles, MO
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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mikeandkirsti wrote: |
BulliBill wrote: |
mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill |
It is different from the later 36bhp/30hpDIN shround. It is unique to 1952-1953 25hp engine. In my opinion the only correct shroud for a May 1952 engine is the 25 hp smooth shroud. Putting a seamed shroud on you engine makes no sense unless you are customizing it and do not care about originality |
...or don't currently own a smooth 25hp fan shroud, or know what differences to look for between the 25hp ond 36hp smooth fan shrouds to try to find the "correct" one. I doubt they are plentiful?
Bill _________________ I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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mikeandkirsti Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009 Posts: 286 Location: EU
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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BulliBill wrote: |
mikeandkirsti wrote: |
BulliBill wrote: |
mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill |
It is different from the later 36bhp/30hpDIN shround. It is unique to 1952-1953 25hp engine. In my opinion the only correct shroud for a May 1952 engine is the 25 hp smooth shroud. Putting a seamed shroud on you engine makes no sense unless you are customizing it and do not care about originality |
...or don't currently own a smooth 25hp fan shroud, or know what differences to look for between the 25hp ond 36hp smooth fan shrouds to try to find the "correct" one. I doubt they are plentiful?
Bill |
You are right, they are not that easy to find. It is commonly known as the Zwitter shroud as it was used on the Zwitter too but up to the end of the 1953 25 hp run. The easiest way to recognize it is by the back side: the later 36hp shroud has an intendation at the top on the back, the early smooth shroud does not have the intendation.
When you find them they seem to be less money than the seamed shroud however. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69824 Location: Phoenix Metro
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BulliBill Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004 Posts: 4572 Location: St Charles, MO
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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Very cool gentlemen! I learned something today, thanks!
Bill _________________ I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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Grant Reiling Samba Slow-Change Artist
Joined: November 28, 2003 Posts: 491 Location: behind the wheel
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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BulliBill wrote: |
Very cool gentlemen! I learned something today, thanks!
Bill |
There truly is a lot to know detail-wise on these old cars...
I am grateful for the collective knowledge shared here. _________________ 1952 Azure Blue 12G (LHD Deluxe 3-fold sunroof Sedan).
"What you really know is possible in your heart is possible.
We make it possible by our will.
What we imagine in our minds becomes our world. That’s just one of many things I have learned from water."
Misaru Emoto
The Hidden Messages in Water |
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lurkinstock Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006 Posts: 415 Location: n. ga.
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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The difference in a Late Split/Zwitter fan shroud and 36 hp shroud on the front is the location of the wire loom tabs. The late Split/Zwitter wire tab placement is above the right upper fan bolt....where as the 36 hp is below the right upper fan bolt. _________________ " Southern Comfort Vintage Volks "
**The Grand Ole Dubs of the South**
52 split
59 single cab |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69824 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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lurkinstock wrote: |
The difference in a Late Split/Zwitter fan shroud and 36 hp shroud on the front is the location of the wire loom tabs. The late Split/Zwitter wire tab placement is above the right upper fan bolt....where as the 36 hp is below the right upper fan bolt. |
Thanks for that info, I knew I shuld have posted the front view of the later one too
Early one from above
Later
Left side wiring tab is lower too _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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mikeandkirsti Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009 Posts: 286 Location: EU
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Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:27 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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My engine number 1-0410994 built on 1 April 1952 has the smooth shroud. This engine 1-0406742 built in mid March 1952 (first March engine was 1-0400482 and 10421 engines were built in March) still has the seamed shroud:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2270295. It is only 4252 numbers smaller than the 1 April engine.
It seems quite likely that the change from seamed to smooth shroud took place on 1 April 1952! |
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Zwitterkafer Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007 Posts: 879 Location: Lanark County, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:46 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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Interesting about the Zwitter shroud wiring tab locations, I did not notice that before. Thanks for posting that. _________________ "Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC |
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bwaz Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004 Posts: 1780
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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My November 1/52 engine compartment
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sweden Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 227 Location: sweden
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:15 pm Post subject: Two models of Zwitter-1953 fan shrouds |
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I have been with VW in 38 years and almost every day i learn something new. For some weeks ago i looked for parts to two 1953 engine.
And notice a small different in the fanshrouds.
The steel clamp for the electric cable does not sit in the same place.
2 of the fanshrouds come from Zwitter and 2 comes from 1953 oval.
And my marsh oval 1953 have the 53 modell to.
If i have right the Zwitter model have the clamp higher then to the oval 1953 model.
_________________ Me and my sons cars Typ1 -49 -50 -51 -52 -52 -53 -53 -54 -55 -55 -56 -56 -57 -58 cab -64 cab
T3 TriStar airride with Audi 1,8T engine and Porsche 996 gearbox. |
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sotos Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2014 Posts: 71
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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I think you are correct . Just checked my May 1953 engine (photos) and has the clamp at the lower point , this engine seems to be unmolested having all the parts correctly date coded or period correct , D regulator ,flat distributor , ignition coil , intake manifold ,carburetor , not sure for the manual starting configuration though.
The air cleaner is the only part that I bought separately.
Checked also a March 1953 I also have that was factory rebuild , it has later or missing parts and has also the clamp lower , I'm not giving much credit to this one but on the other hand it wasn't a vital part to replace.
Great observation and coincidentally this month is 38 years into vw's for me too (June 1982), time flies.
_________________ http://www.komenda-porsche-designer.at/
Oval53 (June)
Beetle 1.3 1966
New beetle 1.6 2003 |
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ZENVWDRIVER Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008 Posts: 3340 Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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BulliBill wrote: |
mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill |
… i'm with Bill - love older parts on my cars "that reek with character".
Here's my '55... with split front fenders, steering wheel, L rear decklid handle and wiper motor...
_________________ 5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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