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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: St Charles, MO
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 Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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Thanks "Sled",
So I have 25hp engine # -1-0423XXX (May 1952?) and according to your info I should have a seamed fan shroud on my engine. Thankfully I have one that I bought from Christian G. back in 1999... Thanks for the info!
Bill Bowman
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I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
Thanks "Sled",
So I have 25hp engine # -1-0423XXX (May 1952?) and according to your info I should have a seamed fan shroud on my engine. Thankfully I have one that I bought from Christian G. back in 1999... Thanks for the info!
Bill Bowman |
Bill, I have to correct myself as I thought about it a bit longer and realized that engine number had to be incorrect as I've seen earlier cars with smooth shrouds. I believe the changed happened some time in April or May, so your car would most likely have a smooth shroud. My progressive refinements mentions nothing about the shroud change so ill keep digging.
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mikeandkirsti
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 286
Location: EU
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:54 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
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lurkinstock
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 415
Location: n. ga.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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My March 12th 52' car has a smooth fan shroud. So consistent with what's been mentioned. Thanks
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mikeandkirsti
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 286
Location: EU
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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Virtanen´s very original Azur Blau Split is built on 11 January 1952 and still has the seamed shroud which is original to the car.
Change took place between 11 January 1952 and 12 March 1952.
Anybody with an original February car? |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:42 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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| mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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mikeandkirsti
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 286
Location: EU
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:01 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
| mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill |
It is different from the later 36bhp/30hpDIN shround. It is unique to 1952-1953 25hp engine. In my opinion the only correct shroud for a May 1952 engine is the 25 hp smooth shroud. Putting a seamed shroud on you engine makes no sense unless you are customizing it and do not care about originality |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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| mikeandkirsti wrote: |
| BulliBill wrote: |
| mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill |
It is different from the later 36bhp/30hpDIN shround. It is unique to 1952-1953 25hp engine. In my opinion the only correct shroud for a May 1952 engine is the 25 hp smooth shroud. Putting a seamed shroud on you engine makes no sense unless you are customizing it and do not care about originality |
...or don't currently own a smooth 25hp fan shroud, or know what differences to look for between the 25hp ond 36hp smooth fan shrouds to try to find the "correct" one. I doubt they are plentiful?
Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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mikeandkirsti
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 286
Location: EU
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
| mikeandkirsti wrote: |
| BulliBill wrote: |
| mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill |
It is different from the later 36bhp/30hpDIN shround. It is unique to 1952-1953 25hp engine. In my opinion the only correct shroud for a May 1952 engine is the 25 hp smooth shroud. Putting a seamed shroud on you engine makes no sense unless you are customizing it and do not care about originality |
...or don't currently own a smooth 25hp fan shroud, or know what differences to look for between the 25hp ond 36hp smooth fan shrouds to try to find the "correct" one. I doubt they are plentiful?
Bill |
You are right, they are not that easy to find. It is commonly known as the Zwitter shroud as it was used on the Zwitter too but up to the end of the 1953 25 hp run. The easiest way to recognize it is by the back side: the later 36hp shroud has an intendation at the top on the back, the early smooth shroud does not have the intendation.
When you find them they seem to be less money than the seamed shroud however. |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69820
Location: Phoenix Metro
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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Very cool gentlemen! I learned something today, thanks!
Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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Grant Reiling
Samba Slow-Change Artist
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 491
Location: behind the wheel
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
Very cool gentlemen! I learned something today, thanks!
Bill |
There truly is a lot to know detail-wise on these old cars...
I am grateful for the collective knowledge shared here.   
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lurkinstock
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 415
Location: n. ga.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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The difference in a Late Split/Zwitter fan shroud and 36 hp shroud on the front is the location of the wire loom tabs. The late Split/Zwitter wire tab placement is above the right upper fan bolt....where as the 36 hp is below the right upper fan bolt.
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**The Grand Ole Dubs of the South**
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69820
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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| lurkinstock wrote: |
| The difference in a Late Split/Zwitter fan shroud and 36 hp shroud on the front is the location of the wire loom tabs. The late Split/Zwitter wire tab placement is above the right upper fan bolt....where as the 36 hp is below the right upper fan bolt. |
Thanks for that info, I knew I shuld have posted the front view of the later one too
Early one from above
Later
Left side wiring tab is lower too
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mikeandkirsti
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 286
Location: EU
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| Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:27 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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My engine number 1-0410994 built on 1 April 1952 has the smooth shroud. This engine 1-0406742 built in mid March 1952 (first March engine was 1-0400482 and 10421 engines were built in March) still has the seamed shroud:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2270295. It is only 4252 numbers smaller than the 1 April engine.
It seems quite likely that the change from seamed to smooth shroud took place on 1 April 1952! |
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Zwitterkafer
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007
Posts: 879
Location: Lanark County, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:46 am Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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Interesting about the Zwitter shroud wiring tab locations, I did not notice that before. Thanks for posting that.
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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My November 1/52 engine compartment
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sweden
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2006
Posts: 227
Location: sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:15 pm Post subject: Two models of Zwitter-1953 fan shrouds |
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I have been with VW in 38 years and almost every day i learn something new. For some weeks ago i looked for parts to two 1953 engine.
And notice a small different in the fanshrouds.
The steel clamp for the electric cable does not sit in the same place.
2 of the fanshrouds come from Zwitter and 2 comes from 1953 oval.
And my marsh oval 1953 have the 53 modell to.
If i have right the Zwitter model have the clamp higher then to the oval 1953 model.
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sotos
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2014
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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I think you are correct . Just checked my May 1953 engine (photos) and has the clamp at the lower point , this engine seems to be unmolested having all the parts correctly date coded or period correct , D regulator ,flat distributor , ignition coil , intake manifold ,carburetor , not sure for the manual starting configuration though.
The air cleaner is the only part that I bought separately.
Checked also a March 1953 I also have that was factory rebuild , it has later or missing parts and has also the clamp lower , I'm not giving much credit to this one but on the other hand it wasn't a vital part to replace.
Great observation and coincidentally this month is 38 years into vw's for me too (June 1982), time flies. 
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ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3340
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: 25 hp engine fan, unique to 25hp? |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
| mikeandkirsti wrote: |
I have engine number 1-0410994 built likely on 1 April 1952 (as the last engine in March is 410904) and it has all original parts including the shroud which is already smooth.
Change might have been earlier but from April 1952 onward the shroud should be smooth.
January cars have seamed shrouds so change took place in February/March 1952. Probably not all at once. |
An additional question then;
Is the then "new" smooth fan shroud for the 25 hp engine just like the 36hp fan shroud, or are there any unique features of the 25hp smooth shrouds that make them different from the more common 36 hp shrouds?
Correct or not, I might still run the "seamed" shroud just because it reeks of character! Gotta love that weld!
Bill |
… i'm with Bill - love older parts on my cars "that reek with character".
Here's my '55... with split front fenders, steering wheel, L rear decklid handle and wiper motor...
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