Preferred Engine Conversion

AndyBees · Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:11 pm Post subject:

Well, until you drive a TDI Vanagon, you have no clue as to how well the engine pushes it!

Today (yesterday, 7/30), we picked up a biker and gave him and his gear a 100 mile lift. He was behind schedule to catch a ferry at Prince Rupert, BC. Anyway, with the camper, our gear, his gear/bike and three of us, the TDI ate the hills on the Cassiar Highway mile after mile!

A friend of mine in Virginia traded away his Subie 2.2 for a Subie 3.3 ....... he says it is awesome on power but loves gasoline! ... The last time I talked with him, a TDI engine was on his bucket list!

Our fill-up at Dease Lake this morning was 31.225 mpg. I'm sure 35 to 40 mph down the Cassiar contributed to the MPG increase. But, the first 50 miles were pretty rough and it was also raining a lot. No Subie engine can putt along at 40 mph in 4th gear with the load I have... no way!

Lastly, I have a 2000 Jetta TDI with 346k miles on it! Maintenance has never been an issue! It still rolls up 50 mpg tank after tank! Maintenance is not an issue with the TDI Vanagon either.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

tschroeder0 · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:14 am Post subject:

Hey Andy,
I read over your thread in the last few days of you build. Amazing skills you have!
I think it needs to be put in perspective, your thread for the build is upwards of 70 pages filled with tons of fabrication/ modifications No kits that I know of correct?
compare this to my own swap, a kit from RMW(suby), and about 10 pages on my post showing the build.
Dont get me wrong, I love it and some day I will do a van with a diesel swap, but that is a whole different animal from what most people know. You have to be committed in a whole different way to to a diesel swap, especially if it is your first swap.

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:33 am Post subject:

If he'd of just used an earlier AHU/1Z and a stock T3 diesel install kit, it would've been an install much more akin to a vendor supplied off the shelf partial kit experience--same power output, but a lot easier project. I also prefer the ALH, but not all TDI installs are necessarily complex or DIY unfriendly.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

Christopher Schimke · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:43 am Post subject:

tschroeder0 · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:56 am Post subject:

yeah, maybe Im missing something, but is there a kit out there? It seems every diesel swap requires an engine bar mod/design, a oil pan mod, an exhaust mod and it seems many require an intercooler, trans gearing mod too?
Are any of these available from a vendor

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:37 am Post subject:

So far as I know, the only complete engine swap "kits" are the Bostig and H2O Vanagon 1.8t. Nearly every other swap requires a bit of DIY research and parts assemblage from a variety of vendors. The TDI install is no different.

I believe an AHU/1Z using stock diesel 50 degree install bits and an mTDI pump would be the easiest. If someone thinks an intercooler install is beyond their abilities, then I concede that a TDI swap is probably not within their DIY bailiwick. I've done a number of IC installs...it ain't brain science.

As to re-gearing; it's an added expense. But, by now most of these transmissions are at the end of their effective lifespans, so I consider a trans rebuild as part and parcel of any install intended to provide longterm reliability and peace of mind. Stock short R&P and/or 3rd and 4th gearing sucks anyway
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

MarkWard · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:51 am Post subject:

I have no affiliation with this company, but Foreign Auto Supply in Maine appears to have kits for installing the later blocks into a Vanagon, both gas and diesel. http://www.foreignautosupply.com/

When I started my conversion, I was anxious about the "electronics". Had I known there were mechanical pumps that could be adapted I probably would have gone that route back then. Good thing I did not know.

I am extremely happy with how the electronics have preformed even grafted into my vanagon. You don't even think about it. Plus you get free cruise control.

Andy's thread does go on a bit, but some of the hurdles he encountered were having to outsource welding and fabricating. He also took the time to install the cluster from the donor which was a project on to itself. He also spent a lot of time trying to resurrect the original tank. He also spent a ton of time doing the electrical including running conduits etc. I used runs of Ethernet cable tie rapped to the factory harness. It was also his first one. Plus he did not work on it full time and had plenty of life crisis's during that time.
_________________
☮️

hans j · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:15 am Post subject:

I'm going to try the FAS 50* adapter on my next conversion. I'd like to be able to put together a bolt-in conversion kit someday, but it's a long way off. The electronics were no issue for me as I work on the modern cars all day long. I learned a lot doing my conversion and know some things I will do different next time.

It took me 3 months working after work and on weekends to get the old engine out, drop the syncro tank and deal with the body behind it, and install the engine. There were a few hurdles I had to deal with, most of them will be easy next time for sure. I was just overworked trying to get it in and drive it again.

I would say the only bad thing about the TDI conversion is it might be wanted to get taller 3rd and 4th gear in the transmission. But I drove around for months on stock gearing and 28" tires before I got my new transmission.

I would consider my conversion pretty basic for an ECU based TDI. All stock gauges and stock cruise control switch work seamlessly with the engine. Just need to add clutch and brake switches. Most of it is detailed in my build thread linked in my signature.
_________________
1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

wasserbox · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:51 am Post subject:

tschroeder0 · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:22 pm Post subject:

"So far as I know, the only complete engine swap "kits" are the Bostig and H2O Vanagon 1.8t. Nearly every other swap requires a bit of DIY research and parts assemblage from a variety of vendors. The TDI install is no different. "

cmon,
I picked up my kit from RMW, with my reverse manifold and my completed harnes. spent the equivalent of 2 weeks to get everything put in. I had some unrelated issues with the engine later that required me to do rings etc...but to say a diesel swap is the same as a suby swap is just plain wrong.
I sourced everything from one vendor except the engine and some stuff from local parts shops, no mods, no fabrication.
I have yet to see a diesel swap that doesn't read like a novel, I like the read but it speaks to the amount of work needed

So, am I wrong? as I asked earlier can you buy an modded engine bar, oil pan, harness and can a stock trans be used etc... for diesel swaps from a vendor? not at all trying to be difficult I just don't know the answer.

Again, I love everyone doing these, you are all some badass guys but lets be honest about what it takes these days to do one as compared to having a kit so that we are givivng out realistic information.

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject:

I don't think the performance outcome of either swap can logically be compared, so it's a moot point to continue arguing any kind of head to head. If you're seeking one set of criteria or a completely different set, then you opt for the best solution to either discrete set.

We've already covered "kits". If I wanted to install an AAZ/AHU/1Z, then the factory "kit" is the best approach.

I bought a complete NA diesel 50 degree install from Craigslist including:

Flywheel
Starter
Bellhousing
Oil pan
Oil pump
Crossbars
Engine mounting arms

All factory VW = $400

I think this would bolt up to an AAZ free and clear with no problems. On an AHU/1Z, I think the LS mounting arm might need to be modified or re-fabricated to clear the TDI turbo. If you've ever seen a TDI/1.8t exhaust system, then you can see how simple they are to fabricate. I believe FAS can also sell you a complete exhaust.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

Waldi · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: Best t3 engine

is in my opinion and after 10th of conversions a mechanik tdi.
I use a Landi Pump in the housing of a AAZ Pump, a watercooled turbo from RA/SB golf2, intercooler and oilcooler.
No elektronic problems, enoph power and nearly plug-and-play.

Edit: i personaly use since 150tsd miles a 100hp AAZ, watercooled turbo, intercooler, oilcooler, only with plantoil (raps).

https://fotos.web.de/ui/external/VKGtlDfAROyEI7Kw8ka90A96203

tschroeder0 · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:14 pm Post subject:

zieitgeist,

thats good to know (the kit stuff available), not trying to highjack this thread but it would be great for guys like me to have a thread with a good primer on all the different terminology of the various engines that all the diesel guys speak of...their good and bad points etc...

AndyBees · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:56 am Post subject:

Well, if anyone is looking for a turn-key job, then they should go for it. Each to his own!

My dreams to do a "diesel" conversion go way back before "Al Gore" invented the Internet!

So, as with everything in life, curves get thrown to us and plans never materialize or are put off for years to come.

By the time I was in a position to move on my dream project, VW built some awesome engines AHU, ALH .... So, when I retired in '08, I began the process. However, as Mark (rsxsr) indicated, I had a number of life events thrown at me that caused the project to be put on hold or go for weeks without any progress at all.

Early on, getting info was like pulling "hens" teeth! Either those who had it would not share it, or wanted an arm and a leg for it!

So, when I started the Build Thread, I tried to give as many details as possible...... Yes, I may have over did it! Sadly, most Build Projects leave out a lot of detail.

I have gone back through my Build Thread and edited to show or tell what didn't work, how I made changes, etc. I plan to continue to edit it and then one day wrap-up the Thread. And, yes, I did do some stupid things and now wonder what the hell was I thinking. I made some costly mistakes too! Rolling Eyes

Also, I have shared with numerous individuals the electrical schematics I put together.

Doing an ALH with all the electronics was a real challenge. I liked incorporating as many bells and whistles as possible... and more! Very Happy

My advice is this: If you cannot rebuild a VW Vanagon transmission (stick or auto), then you had better let someone else do your conversion for you, regardless of which "package" you decide to go with. Then, when there are issues, give them a call for help!

It is my plan to do another ALH TDI Vanagon (tin top) starting this coming winter. It should go very smooth! One added feature, I will be building the engine from the ground up... including an oversize bore!
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

dkoesyncro · Samba Member Joined: December 10, 2006 Posts: 983

I understand Andy on the fact you'll spend money on trial and error til' you get something right. Although not diesel I have been working my nerves over on an upright I4 ABA-T that fits under the deck lid w/ out modifications on a syncro.Its become clear why the turn key kits available have high price tags. Its in the R&D.

Once or if I tire of the ABA i have a complete AFN TDi, basically the AHU turned up a bit.... larger nozzles and a VNT. I love the TDi We have two wagons one w/ the 1Z and the other w/ the AFN and these things just go and go- I follow my factory service intervals and when one part of something fails i look at the whole system. These engines have been awesome!

vegandavid · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:07 pm Post subject:

I have a TDI converted Vanagon. It was poorly converted by the previous owner and I've been fixing it up since I bought it. It was a dream of mine to have a TDI powered Vanagon, so I snatched up one at a price that seamed reasonable for a Syncro with a TDI engine, even though it had problems.

I've been researching TDI conversions a lot lately so these are the easiest options as far as I can tell. These are for a 15 degrees installation. 50 degrees installation can be done cheaper for sure, BUT I have a syncro. A 50 degrees install on a syncro needs a diesel syncro fuel tank, which is extremely hard to find, so for me 15 degrees is the only option (as far as I know).

Eurospec sells a preassembled kit that has everything basically, including the a pumpe duse TDI engine, intercooler, air cleaner, chipped ecu, mexican bay window bellhousing, TDI starter and adapter, flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, exhaust and engine carrier bar. If it doesn't come with a wiring harness (which it might, I can't tell on their website), you can get the wiring harness from Fast Forward Automotive. That would be everything you need. The Eurospec kit is $11,900 and a wiring harness is from Fast Forward is between $850 and $1100.

That kit is pricey for sure, but it's preassembled and basically complete. They also sell conversion kits for people who want to source their own engine, ecu, intercooler, air cleaner, etc. Those kits are much cheaper.

Here's what I think it would take to do a TDI conversion if you didn't buy the pre-assembled kit from Eurospec:

1. Donor engine, ecu, wiring, N75, N18 and other various tidbits (from a salvage yard, price varies)
2. Eurospec Complete Diesel Engine Installation Kit (Mexican bay bellhousing, tdi starter/adapter, engine carrier bar, raised deck lid, other tidbits for using the mexican bellhousing) $2800 from Eurospec
3. Fast Forward Automotive wiring harness $800-1100 from Fast Forward
4. Intercooler of your choice and piping (air to water or air to air, seems like air to water is the better choice for lower EGT) $300 or so with piping from Silicone Intakes
5. Regearing of the tranny (changing 3rd to 1.14 and 4th to .77 or .70) $1500-$3000 to rebuild and add new gears depending if you have Syncro and what other addons you include like SA oiling plates.
6. Air filter housing and piping (Donaldson is a popular choice, but hard to fit on Syncros) $300 or so including piping, air cleaner from Donaldson, piping from Silicone Intakes
7. Special oil pan $150 from Eurospec
8. EGT guage/probe $150 or so

At the cheapest, that's $5950 not including the engine.

Recommended other expenses:

Chipped ECU $300 at Malone Tuning
Upgraded injectors $400 or so at DBW LLC

Even with the complete kit from Eurospec, you'd still need to regear the tranny and add an EGT probe/gauge.

What is mostly daunting to me about the TDI conversion is the lack of solid how-tos. The info is spread out in forum posts on here, messages on the Yahoo Group and a couple other random places and all those show different ways of doing the conversion. It would be amazing to see solid how-to's available.

David
_________________
1986 Vanagon Syncro TDI AHU

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:36 pm Post subject:

An AHU can be installed in a Syncro at 50 degrees with an adapter plate, vs the stock diesel bellhousing and rare fuel tank, so the latter isn't your only option.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

vegandavid · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject:

AndyBees · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:07 pm Post subject:

Excluding my labor, which was a joy to do, I have less than $7,000.00 in my entire TDI Vanagon, including the new rims from VanCafe as well as all the other stuff, such as: ball joints, bushings, brake hoses, new fuel tank with seals, PS lines, AC work, etc. That price includes a number of costly mistakes too!

I (me) did the transmission upgrade and rebuild for about $1050.00 which included new 3rd and 4th gears, new 3rd-4th hub, all new brass synro rings, all new bearings except pinion bearing, seals, complete new reverse assembly, and 3rd-4th shifting fork!..27k miles later it still works fine!

A good fabricator could make the fuel tank!

I did the electrical myself, including the Jetta Cluster and a number of bells and whistles, ...cost: 99% labor, the harness come with the engine buy. I did install a custom Intercooler with both manual and sensor operation.

EGT temp is monitored via a McNally gauge. Air to Air Intercooler is far more simple and does the job well. Water cooled based Intercooler is in effect an air-cooled unit!... go figure! And, once it gets heat soaked cooling down is slow!

The Malone Stage 1 tune was done at a TDI fest and has been an excellent investment!

I would not sell the project for double my money back!

For those who do not have the skills, time, space, etc., a package deal is definitely the best way to go!
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

levi · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:26 am Post subject:

Well. ...that's real nice Andy, but seriously now, how many folks here on the samba do you think have the tools and capability to attempt a transmission rebuild?

Are you suggesting others here try doing the same, or what are you saying
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

Preferred Engine Conversion
Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 Next Jump to:

	Forum Index -> Vanagon	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 Next Jump to:
Page 8 of 12