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Crankey Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 2652
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Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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markswagen wrote: |
that's an expensive option though, you can have a california legal EJ25 frnaken motor fitted, for a couple of hundred more, not necessary for most, but that's a TON of $ for a kit, i have a 50° ABA, taking up space, i would like shot of.
khughes wrote: |
Another option to consider:
http://www.foreignautosupply.com/engine-and-drive-...n-program/
All brand new engine and accessories from VAG. 4 years with mine and zero issues to date. Kits are 100% turnkey with everything you need, beautifully engineered. I love mine (Gas), and it's smooth as silk without any I-4 buzz.
Keith |
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Well, I work 15 minutes from peace vans in Seattle. Their main swap is the subi. They said they would chat with the team about doing a 1.8t.
But talking to their lead swapper, he loves his 2.5 which he did after gathering parts for 1.8t swap..those parts are for sale now, engine with ecu plus harness, not sure if harness is modes already or not.
However as you mentioned the subi fits really well. I have 6+ more inches clearance over a normal van, so I wonder about shimming a subi on the mount pads of the RMW engine hanger and even slotting and scotching the nose of the trans up 3/4" to level things out some. If need be I could notch and weld up the frame rail where the shift rod goes past.
For the years driving the big H6 on a syncro engine hanger with 6" oil pan clearance and just always nervous about it plus it looks shitty with all that motor hanging out.
Maybe I just get the EZ out and think further while I clean up the engine bay. |
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dkoesyncro Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006 Posts: 981
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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I know a lot of folks use the subaru because it fits. Produces the right power curve and is plentiful in society and in vanagon support.
Once upon a time the VW i4 was a popular conversion because of its simplicity with diesel components but a lot of folks didn't like it's power output. This evolved to hopped up i4s and some forced induction. The TDi and the 1.8T.
I was moving forward on my ABA-T and had decided to wire in a stand alone management. While tearing into a welfare check. I saw a fair amount of heart ache. Was I asking to much from the little engine that could? It never complained, but was the van to much mass for the little guy, I don't know?
This leads me to the white board, contemplating a N/A build on a VR6, using the cams from the AES and "modified" intake. The power band of this engine combo looks promising. Something like 140hp at 4500 and 170 tq at 3200. It's been many years since my last VR but that was a very enjoyable engine. I've seen a few folks venture down this road. I know clearances turn folks off but I've accepted this. Using the oil pump from an R32 will allow for a shortened oil pan or even the R32 oil pan. Besides the valve cover I can't really take much off the top because of the cams.
I know this is one sided and I tend to get tunnel vision, but does anyone have opinions or experience with this swap compared to others?....at this moment I'm done with turbos in the vanagon, it's a very expressive wear item! |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 736 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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dkoesyncro wrote: |
I know a lot of folks use the subaru because it fits. Produces the right power curve and is plentiful in society and in vanagon support.
Once upon a time the VW i4 was a popular conversion because of its simplicity with diesel components but a lot of folks didn't like it's power output. This evolved to hopped up i4s and some forced induction. The TDi and the 1.8T.
I was moving forward on my ABA-T and had decided to wire in a stand alone management. While tearing into a welfare check. I saw a fair amount of heart ache. Was I asking to much from the little engine that could? It never complained, but was the van to much mass for the little guy, I don't know?
This leads me to the white board, contemplating a N/A build on a VR6, using the cams from the AES and "modified" intake. The power band of this engine combo looks promising. Something like 140hp at 4500 and 170 tq at 3200. It's been many years since my last VR but that was a very enjoyable engine. I've seen a few folks venture down this road. I know clearances turn folks off but I've accepted this. Using the oil pump from an R32 will allow for a shortened oil pan or even the R32 oil pan. Besides the valve cover I can't really take much off the top because of the cams.
I know this is one sided and I tend to get tunnel vision, but does anyone have opinions or experience with this swap compared to others?....at this moment I'm done with turbos in the vanagon, it's a very expressive wear item! |
To each their own, but there are a butt-load of turbos on the market and have been for years. Can't be *that* horrible. I love mine, and the power curve is tuned to be right where it's needed, with zero problems in years. That's the *opinion* the OP was asking for. IMO, doing a stand-alone system is not a turnkey swap, it's a consuming hobby.
Like Subies? Do one and be happy. _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3102 Location: Bozeman MT
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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khughes wrote: |
That's the *opinion* the OP was asking for. |
Since the OP asked for the opinion 4 years ago, I'll offer my completely irrelevant opinion too.
I'm looking to do a turbo swap and Stage 2 tune on my Alltrack once the warranty is up and that should turn it into a somewhat plush 350 HP AWD monster/sleeper to provide all of the jollies that that part of my brain craves.
Meanwhile, I'm happy to plod along with my slightly modded WBX in the 30 year old van that it resides in.
Different tools for different jobs.
And as much as I get tired of him bashing Jap cars, I bet this post is Zeitgeist-approved. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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dkoesyncro Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006 Posts: 981
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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Khuges, I know you love your engine, You've made that clear on many pages!
I love my boosted engine, but I tore it down and found a lot of excessive wear on every thing boost related.
My apologies, the last page or two led me to believe that this was a thread about swaps and the pros/cons of them. I read the thread as titled "prefered engine conversion" not "preferred engine kit" |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 736 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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dkoesyncro wrote: |
Khuges, I know you love your engine, You've made that clear on many pages!
I love my boosted engine, but I tore it down and found a lot of excessive wear on every thing boost related.
My apologies, the last page or two led me to believe that this was a thread about swaps and the pros/cons of them. I read the thread as titled "prefered engine conversion" not "preferred engine kit" |
Well, you very well may be right! I looked at them as both being the same thing. But, using a stand-alone system is still a hobby IMO. That's cool if you want do that, but as you likely know, it's harder than it seems at first blush.
As far as love goes, I went from a Tiico I-4 that I truly despised, for 13 years, to NA GenV - which was great, then the turbo version a couple years later - 'cause, well you know. So yeah, I'm in love with the loss of the the Tiico BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!ZZZ. Honestly don't remember what the WBX was like other than slow and hard to keep cool here at 118F. Been too long.
I could have a lot more power than I do, but I stuck with a very modest tune for the very reasons you cite. For low stress power, there's no replacement for displacement - no argument there. But you have to feed that displacement ALL the time whether you need it at that moment or not. Ain't no free lunches unfortunately.
I've never seen a VR-6 install that wasn't real kludgy looking, but I haven't seen more than a couple. I think you could get better mileage with a VR-6 overall than with a Subie 2.5L - just based on the folks I've seen with those Subie conversions - but of the two I'd probably do the Subie for the fit. But that's just me. And camping with me and my wife entails stuffing absolutely everything 12 people could ever need, in twice as long, behind the rear seat, and a big bump there would mean *I* would have less room for my stuff
Keith _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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martijnc1 Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2003 Posts: 17
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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I went for the AEB 1.8t with the 16v steel oil pan (dirt cheap and strong)
The 16v pan fits the old style AEB block and is shallow and is steel so can take a small hit.
The AEB is converted to DBW with canbus dashboard from a 2002 passat. All functional gauges even the fuel sender from the T3 is scaled.
Im from Europe so the 1.8t was the best choice for me because parts cheap-ish and readely available. A low mileage AEB can be found for a few hunderd dollars.
I looked at the subi swap but that gave me to much headache with exhaustheaders, oil pan too, and all parts are a bit harder to reach. And relaiblity wasnt that great, and parts are expensive.
The AEB is reinforced to take 300hp so that the goal. All mated to a flipped 012 gearbox.
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1491 Location: pnw
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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thats a very tidy looking swap!
running it at 15deg makes some of those fwd-esque conversions a bit easier since you arent chained to the diesel van parts.
so that might open up some more options when fitting under the deck of the doka.
if it were a van id just run the subaru and call it a day. _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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martijnc1 Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2003 Posts: 17
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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Thanks!
Oh, ive got a 1990 Multivan Bluestar Edition.. indeed at 15degr install. Raised the decklid 1inch. |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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Quote: |
"valvecovergasket"
if it were a van id just run the subaru and call it a day. |
No.
That's the sad option of capitulation to mediocrity and failure.
No. |
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charleslabri Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2019 Posts: 615 Location: Nashville/Yosemite
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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what dash is that youve got going on?
martijnc1 wrote: |
I went for the AEB 1.8t with the 16v steel oil pan (dirt cheap and strong)
The 16v pan fits the old style AEB block and is shallow and is steel so can take a small hit.
The AEB is converted to DBW with canbus dashboard from a 2002 passat. All functional gauges even the fuel sender from the T3 is scaled.
Im from Europe so the 1.8t was the best choice for me because parts cheap-ish and readely available. A low mileage AEB can be found for a few hunderd dollars.
I looked at the subi swap but that gave me to much headache with exhaustheaders, oil pan too, and all parts are a bit harder to reach. And relaiblity wasnt that great, and parts are expensive.
The AEB is reinforced to take 300hp so that the goal. All mated to a flipped 012 gearbox.
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_________________ -------------------------------------------------
An example of my labor in action:
https://www.instagram.com/wileythewesty/
My Build Thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730525&highlight= |
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Crankey Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 2652
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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He mentioned 2002 Passat.
That's a really nice looking install. |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7404 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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Crankey wrote: |
Well, I work 15 minutes from peace vans in Seattle. Their main swap is the subi. They said they would chat with the team about doing a 1.8t.
But talking to their lead swapper, he loves his 2.5 which he did after gathering parts for 1.8t swap..those parts are for sale now, engine with ecu plus harness, not sure if harness is modes already or not.
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I'm surprised to hear this. Two years ago I saw a 1.8T going in at PeaceVans and Harley said they were transitioning to focus on that conversion. I figured the Seattle landscape would be: Northwesty and Subie, PeaceVans and the 1.8 and Eion's and Bostig.
That's what happens when I don't pay attention. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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Super disappointing to see PV bailing on the best gas option out there. At this point, there are no PNW shops I feel comfortable recommending for engine swaps. That's sad. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Hounddogs Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2019 Posts: 41 Location: Puget Sound, WA
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Super disappointing to see PV bailing on the best gas option out there. At this point, there are no PNW shops I feel comfortable recommending for engine swaps. That's sad. |
Eion’s installed my FAS Gen V 2.0 last year and I’m more than happy with the shop and my new engine.
Someone on this thread mentioned the higher cost of this conversion option, but they failed to acknowledge or mention the fact that everything is brand-stinking new. Sure it was expensive, but that adds a lot of value in my mind.
And it fits...
_________________ ‘85 Adventurewagen - FAS GenV inline VW 4 cylinder
‘86 Adventurewagen (Sold)
‘03 Eurovan (Sold)
‘83 Westfalia (Sold)
‘81 Westfalia (Burned up on the side of the freeway in 1986) |
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jttosh Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2004 Posts: 451 Location: Cuyahoga Falls,Ohio
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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I did the Bostig conversion and am really happy with it.
_________________ "listening for the secret,searching for the sound" |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 736 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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Crankey wrote: |
He mentioned 2002 Passat. |
That's a really horrible looking dash, and the colors will damage his eyes. He needs to save himself by sending it to me immediately! _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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martijnc1 Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2003 Posts: 17
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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Not trying to spam this topic, thanks for the compliments!
my custom 2002 passat dash with reprogrammed fuel gauge to work onto the T3 fuel float.
It a combo of the old clock and the new, with all functions trough canbus and speed is from the 012 gearbox.
The tablet dash is Torque Pro with racedash plugin that runs on the bluetooth module.
I'll make my own topic with my full presentation of all things i've made! flipped box, custom gearlinkage and so on.
Thanks!
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Jacebc Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2019 Posts: 8 Location: Bainbridge Island
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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I just drove past Eion’s shop today. Would you mind sharing the cost and time to complete? Would you do it again?
Hounddogs wrote: |
Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Super disappointing to see PV bailing on the best gas option out there. At this point, there are no PNW shops I feel comfortable recommending for engine swaps. That's sad. |
Eion’s installed my FAS Gen V 2.0 last year and I’m more than happy with the shop and my new engine.
Someone on this thread mentioned the higher cost of this conversion option, but they failed to acknowledge or mention the fact that everything is brand-stinking new. Sure it was expensive, but that adds a lot of value in my mind.
And it fits...
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Crankey Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 2652
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Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Preferred Engine Conversion |
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@Hounddogs hey that definitely looks very clean and well done.
Love to know, is this your daily driver ? Is it diesel or gas and how long since your swap.
I spoke with Eion about the 1.8t swap too about a week and a half ago but now leaning 2.5 subi. More leaning to go with Eions shop for the feedback I have read. Though I haven't read or had bad service at the other vanagon shops I've been to.
I am wanting daily driver and only vehicle reliability and serviceability. |
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