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Mathew Zelezen
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2004
Posts: 547
Location: Graeagle, CA
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 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: Why can't I fix my own transmission? |
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I have an 86 Syncro that has about 254,000 miles on the odometer. The transmission is original and is starting to show its age but still operates very well.
Before the 3rd 4th gear disaster strikes I'd like to take the tranny apart and replace the worn/suspect items. I realize there are specialty tools that I need to buy and research to be done... but I'm confident I can learn to do this.
Anyone out there that can give me some pointers or past experience would be clutch!
_________________
87 Syncro Tintop
~Rocky J Motor
~Steedle Trans
Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been. |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Clutch? I thought you wanted to fix the tranny. |
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Mathew Zelezen
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2004
Posts: 547
Location: Graeagle, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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 Poor choice of slang... my mistake. Please replace with any of the following:
(helpful, appreciated, great, awesome, nice, excellent, etc. )
Come on! No one out there has heard of something being clutch? Man, I'm either getting old or this is a rough crowd. 
So does anyone have any input for a guy just itching to work on a tranny???
_________________
87 Syncro Tintop
~Rocky J Motor
~Steedle Trans
Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been. |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I wish I had the jigs so I could do it myself, but it's too much to invest for just my own use. If I had them I'd be excited to take it on. It would be fine to be able to change gearsets myself to set up a tranny for a particular engine and how I want to use it. But I'm afraid I don't have any insights into your problem. I've always had to farm out all but the most basic tranny repairs just like you. And it's a mystery to me how an automatic works.
I understood your idiom. You just set yourself up so perfectly I couldn't resist. |
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clearsurf2001
Samba Vaccinator
Joined: February 26, 2004
Posts: 1671
Location: Dave-AKA-fortyeye-Oceanside, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a place to start. http://www.longenterprises.com/ They can source any parts/tools you need. Some of the basics are covered in their diagrams and the various rebuilder CD's. Contact them. I'm sure they can get you going on Syncro specifics as well.
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Get ready for the injection
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| Make sure it is coherent. Rodney |
| mharney wrote: |
I think Glenn has an EMPI crank in his engine. |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: |
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You need a 20 ton press, the special tool to take off the side bearing adjusters, the special tool to take the big nut off the pinion bearing, some means of holding the trans while removing and replacing the above nut, because it takes about 200 ft-lb to get it loose, heavy straight snap ring pliers, a press fixture to support the intermediate plate, while pushing the mainshaft out of the front bearing, A special fixture to hold the pinion while removing its special nut.
094 5 speeds require a couple of gauges to set the 1st gear end play. I've never done a syncro, so don't know exactly what is different from the 5 speeds.
Then you need a dial indicator and fixtures to check the lash of the ring and pinion.
Oh, yeah, a special torque wrench that reads very small amounts on a continuous basis to check the pinion bearing preload.
Then if you replace the case or the ring and pinion, you need a VW385 setter.
That's about $2500.
Have you rebuilt trannies before?
This is a pretty rough one to start on.
If you have alot of experience fixing this sort of stuff, you can probably get by without some of the special tools. But boy, do they make the job easier!
Where are you located?
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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bucko
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2004
Posts: 2617
Location: Coppell, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Well I think this transaxle topic is 23 skidoo, cool, groovy, out-o-sight, dino-mite, and just plain happenin'
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Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia
Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181 |
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Mathew Zelezen
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2004
Posts: 547
Location: Graeagle, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Blast! I don't have a 20 ton press... only thing that comes close is my french press...
Well i guess thats why they cost 1799.00 for rebuilds...
I'm in Telluride, Colorado Al. Where do you hail from?
_________________
87 Syncro Tintop
~Rocky J Motor
~Steedle Trans
Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: It might have been. |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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You paid eighteen-hundred bucks to get your French press rebuilt? Man, that is some desperate coffee!
Sorry, did it again. Can't help myself. |
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psych-illogical
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2004
Posts: 1181
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Hey, it's Telluride. They're used to those kind of prices. 
_________________
83 1/2 Westy waterboxer
'57 Beetle-sold 
Coupla '81 BMW motorcycles (R80G/S; R100RS)
'96 BMW R1100GS |
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psych-illogical
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2004
Posts: 1181
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| 69doublecab wrote: |
You need a 20 ton press, the special tool to take off the side bearing adjusters, the special tool to take the big nut off the pinion bearing, some means of holding the trans while removing and replacing the above nut, because it takes about 200 ft-lb to get it loose, heavy straight snap ring pliers, a press fixture to support the intermediate plate, while pushing the mainshaft out of the front bearing, A special fixture to hold the pinion while removing its special nut.
094 5 speeds require a couple of gauges to set the 1st gear end play. I've never done a syncro, so don't know exactly what is different from the 5 speeds.
Then you need a dial indicator and fixtures to check the lash of the ring and pinion.
Oh, yeah, a special torque wrench that reads very small amounts on a continuous basis to check the pinion bearing preload.
Then if you replace the case or the ring and pinion, you need a VW385 setter.
That's about $2500.
Have you rebuilt trannies before?
This is a pretty rough one to start on.
If you have alot of experience fixing this sort of stuff, you can probably get by without some of the special tools. But boy, do they make the job easier!
Where are you located?
Al |
Yup. That's a $h!#load of special tools. But, a little ingenuity can go an awfully long way when it comes to making reasonable facsimilies. Heck, that's half the fun. A hydraulic shop press can be had pretty reasonably from someplace like Harbor Freight. Yeah, it's not pro-shop quality but for the home hobbiest, it'd be fine. The Bentley shows a lot of very special fixtures for holding dial indicators in the right spot for checking end play etc. but there's ALWAYS a way to jig up an indicator. Way back in the day, when I was messing around with bug trannys you were supposed to use a special jig to set up the shift forks. I found an old trans case and jig-sawed some big a$$ holes into it and used the case as my jig. That was fun. Anyway, I totally agree that this would be a challenging trans to work on especially if you've never done one before. I'm thinking about picking up a used one somewhere and tearing into it just for the fun of it. Mine's currently got 170K on it and the 3-4 slider's still original but it's working great. I'd like to just have one to mess around with and take my time. Then, when it's done, I could do a swap, go through my orig tranny and sell the sucker.
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83 1/2 Westy waterboxer
'57 Beetle-sold
Coupla '81 BMW motorcycles (R80G/S; R100RS)
'96 BMW R1100GS |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| psych-illogical wrote: |
A hydraulic shop press can be had pretty reasonably from someplace like Harbor Freight. Yeah, it's not pro-shop quality but for the home hobbiest, it'd be fine. The Bentley shows a lot of very special fixtures for holding dial indicators in the right spot for checking end play etc. but there's ALWAYS a way to jig up an indicator. Way back in the day, when I was messing around with bug trannys you were supposed to use a special jig to set up the shift forks. I found an old trans case and jig-sawed some big a$$ holes into it and used the case as my jig. |
I'm not very fond of most of that Harbor Freight stuff. I used a 15 ton Harbor Freight press that belonged to a friend It would pop the parts apart, but deflected so bad, it was scary.
Last winter I got an OTC (Made in Owatonna, Minnesota- just up the road from here!) 25 ton, on Ebay for $250, plus shipping from Chicago. This thing is a BEAST! No deflection here!
Every once in a while, good used American made stuff comes up on auctions. One I missed went for about $1000, but had about 300lb of fixtures. Bearing splitters, support blocks, drivers, etc. That stuff is incredibly expensive.
Sure, you can daydream about that cheap Chinese stuff, and it MIGHT be good enough to do the job a few times, but make no mistake, it is still CHEAP JUNK! Pushed to the edge, you could even get injured.
I agree, I used to build trannies with very few special tools.
But I'm self employed and can make a lot of money if I do a lot of billable hours. So, if I fool around and spend 5 extra hours with rigged up stuff, I could have just as well bought the special tools.
Perhaps the best tool I have is a fixture to hold the tranny onto my old American engine stand. This has the strength and the wide base to hold the thing when I have to put 250 ft-lb on the wrench to break loose the pinion bearing nut. I had this built by a local blacksmith/welding shop. I took them a tranny case, the head from my engine stand, and a Bentley.
This ends up replacing the VW309 and VW352 fixtures.
Two of the most important tools are the VW381/14 pinion nut wrenc, and the VW381/15, the special tool to remove the side bearing adjusters. Ya really just ought to buy a new VW381/14 from ZD Mack. Even though the book shows $465, I think they are about $65!
The VW381/15 makes the job easier, but you can move them with other means. I don't know of any sources.
The 091/1 and 094 do NOT need the VW294B shift fork jig. the forks do not adjust with set screws, like the earlier 001, 002 and 091.
And a good thing, that tool is $1500 new.
the last big lump is the VW385 ring gear setter. I've got one of those, never had to use it! My brother has a shop, and needed to put a new r&p in a Porsche 944 with automatic. It would have been a help in that situation.
Good think, they cost over $2500 new. I got a lot of this stuff in a 200 lb purchase of tools on Ebay.
The sad thing is, every dealer had this stuff. 98% of it is gone. Where, you might ask. Likely in the dumpster.
If you want to copy some stuff, PM me. It would be cool to get a good machinist to copy some of this stuff.
BTW, I just rebuilt a 915 Porsche tranny. Not one special tool, except for snap ring pliers and pin punch. Aparently different engineering philosophy. Less price conscious, perhaps.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mathew Zelezen wrote: |
Blast! I don't have a 20 ton press... only thing that comes close is my french press...
Well i guess thats why they cost 1799.00 for rebuilds...
I'm in Telluride, Colorado Al. Where do you hail from? |
Well duh It's on both our profiles! I'm in Cedar Falls, IA.
Funny thing, I was very near Telluride a month ago. I took the road to the west and went to Cortez. Then Mesa Verde. (Easily the best archeological site in the US that I have seen.) I think a great place to take one's kids.
Really a great place to visit. Perhaps a great place to live.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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psych-illogical
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2004
Posts: 1181
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| 69doublecab wrote: |
| Ya really just ought to buy a new VW381/14 from ZD Mack. |
I'm always looking for good tool sources. I haven't heard of ZD Mack before and a google search yielded zip. Gotta link?
_________________
83 1/2 Westy waterboxer
'57 Beetle-sold
Coupla '81 BMW motorcycles (R80G/S; R100RS)
'96 BMW R1100GS |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Psych-I, let me know if you're serious about getting the tools together. I'd be happy to chip in in order to share the cost and the benefits. Get Dogpilot in on the deal and it might get downright cheap to do for all involved.
Andrew |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| psych-illogical wrote: |
| 69doublecab wrote: |
| Ya really just ought to buy a new VW381/14 from ZD Mack. |
I'm always looking for good tool sources. I haven't heard of ZD Mack before and a google search yielded zip. Gotta link? |
ZD Mak, I guess. Here's their Ebay sellers list:
http://stores.ebay.com/ZDMAK-Special-Tools-for-Auto-Repair
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I recommend the chromoly pinion nut tool from ERCO or Weddle over the cheap-o cast version. The cast one won't last that long, and is more than a bit sloppy even when new. The good one will last a lifetime.
Holding the case for nut removal is easy.... just bolt a 3-foot length of angle iron to the main housing.
You can make your own side adjuster tool by cutting a 42 x 72mm piece of flat steel, drilling in the center with a 3/8" drill, and squaring up the hole with a small square file, to fit your 3/8" drive.
The tough one is the 1st gear bearing race removal tool. I've seen these made from whichever model hub had the female pattern built into it (pre-conical lock). Even with the proper factory tool, removal of the screw-on race can be a bitch. One tip on reassembly of the race ... don't overtighten. Overtorqueing these will cause premature wear of the pinion bearing. |
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