Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Motorhead Porn (warning: many many pics)
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
WBX man
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark, Europe
WBX man is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sexyfull Mr. Bond !

Good inspiration for my upcoming engine project !

Some questions…
How come one piston was so much different than the others ?
What is the price of the QSC pistons, are they forget and where did you buy them ?
Did you calculate the final static CR ?
Does the pistons come in the 1,9 version ?

BR.
Rasmus
_________________
2,1 DJ WBX Vanagon/ T3 with Megasquirt/ Renault-Lotus UN1 gearbox/ 320 mm AMG front brakes/ 280mm Eurovan rear brakes

My recent projects:
http://www.t3nettet.dk/viewtopic.php?p=6342#6342
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
WBX man
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark, Europe
WBX man is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw. how does it run Question Laughing
_________________
2,1 DJ WBX Vanagon/ T3 with Megasquirt/ Renault-Lotus UN1 gearbox/ 320 mm AMG front brakes/ 280mm Eurovan rear brakes

My recent projects:
http://www.t3nettet.dk/viewtopic.php?p=6342#6342
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
WBX man
Samba Member


Joined: September 06, 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark, Europe
WBX man is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WBX man wrote:

How come one piston was so much different than the others ?


Oohh I see ... Idea
You turned down all of the pistons because you are using 5.5" rods Wink
_________________
2,1 DJ WBX Vanagon/ T3 with Megasquirt/ Renault-Lotus UN1 gearbox/ 320 mm AMG front brakes/ 280mm Eurovan rear brakes

My recent projects:
http://www.t3nettet.dk/viewtopic.php?p=6342#6342
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
bucko
Samba Member


Joined: December 09, 2004
Posts: 2617
Location: Coppell, Texas
bucko is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think it's a horrible job, and I'm willing to help you out by taking it off of your hands so you can do it over; this time correctly.

Let me know and I'll send you my address. You have to pay shipping as well.


Great job with the photo spread. It will make a great search to refer to.
_________________
Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia

Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9995
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, thanks all for the interest and praise. I hope it's educational as well.

Andrew, I had that bleeder bolt in my hand and thought, "this is stupid. You have to rethread this into a hole I can barely get my fingers near, all while water is pissing a fountain into the air." I thought to channel the side with a Dremel wheel, but then I realised, "hey, I have a lathe" (it's new to me, and so I'm just discovering its many uses). It's really tough to put a hole up the center of a bolt with a drill press, but in a lathe it's a no-brainer. So, chucked up the little bolt, shot a hole right up the middle, a little hole in the side on the drill press, and voila!, instant bleeder bolt. Now the stream of coolant goes round and round as you close the bleeder, but it's good fun and over with much quicker.

If anyone would like one made up, just PM me and I'd be glad to make one up for you.

Al, aftermarket rods for VW engines are available in increments of one-tenth inch, for VW or 2" Chevy rod journals. Many of the aircooled builders use longer rods for long-stroke engines, to get clearance of the piston skirts at BDC. These were EMPI and I actually got two sets. They are 4140 chromoly steel, much stronger and way lighter than stock rods, with ARP high strength fasteners. I had both sets modified by one of my local machinists for the wbx 24mm wristpin bushings. All the aircooleds except T4's use a 22mm pin; T4's use a 24mm but the rods won't fit a T1 or wbx crank. Wbx rods are identical to T1 except the pin size.

As to the oil suction pipe, VW did something very unusual and in my opinion nonsensical with the wbx case, and they also did this with some of the T4 cases. The overpressure release port, instead of dumping the oil right back to free air and the sump, instead ports into a cross-galley that routes it back to the oil suction galley. Why? I suppose they thought there would be a reclamation of the power lost to pumping excess oil that was then released. What you're doing instead is rerouting oil that's already gotten hotter by going thru the pump, and introducing pressure variations on a suction line, a major no-no in designing any pumping system. I design lots of pumping systems, and you always make the suction side as straight, smooth, and airtight as possible. So I couldn't stand that they had done this, it provides no worthwhile benefit and may be a contributor to the wbx having low and erratic OP. So to rule it out, I've modified my wbx pickup tubes to turn it back into a straight suction line, and overpressure is returned to the sump, just like every other engine I've ever gotten into.

By the way, this is reiney's old wbx motor, that he replaced with his new 1.6TD and 5-speed. He gave me a great deal on all his old wbx stuff, and lotsa other spare parts. The engine had really low miles, which is why I reused the main bearings, and had the lifters reground instead of buying new. Thanks for all the great parts, bro! It lives on!! And nice job on that TD, too. Can't wait to see the intercooler installed. I did use the rubber intake sleeves, because one of my old ones split apart when I pulled off the manifold. But it turned out the ones you gave me were for a 1.9, so they're smaller ID. I had to get this thing together, so I cut the flared ends off the 2.1 intake runners, so those 1.9 sleeves slid on nice and tight. It's a better fit than the right sleeves would have had with the flared ends.

Rasmus, it's funny how much difference there was in deck heights before turning the pistons down. I took a single piston first, and put it and a cylinder on each rod on the built bottom end, and measured the differences in TDC height of each rod that way. Then I took each piston and put it on the #1 rod, to get the piston variance, which was a few thou in total. Then matched the lowest pistons to the longest rods and such, then mocked up each one in a cylinder in its designated position. That finally told me how much to turn down each piston to zero deck. Then after turning down, each one had to be cc'ed, and I had to take out some material from 3 of them to match the one with the largest volume (luckily, the heads were all equal, so i didn't have to grind them out any). Got them all to within one cc, then had to grind some material out of the inner skirts on the heavier ones to match the lightest one. All in all, a lot of work getting all of them to zero deck, same dish volume, and same weight to 1 gm.

Th QSC P&L set is sold by Serranos from the Samba classifieds (who have apparently closed last month. Shucks: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251099&highlight=gscco+msn ), and they were $200 the set. Plan on using an old set of wbx wrist pins, unless QSC has corrected their pin selection by now (they were almost 2mm too long to fit between the clips). Deves Piston Rings combined sets from two Volvo B23 motors to make me a set of 96mm rings for these pistons with the correct thicknesses. The rings QSC included were entirely wrong in thicknesses and so useless.

http://qscusa.com/vw_piston_cylinder.htm (they feature the 96mm wbx set as for a "2.4", but they make a 2.2. They know that, but haven't changed the web page)

http://www.deves.com/devesrings/cars_VOLVO.html (combined rings from sets 2251 and 2186)


bucko, I'd be happy to let you have this motor, but you'll have to pick up the shipping. That'll be $4500, please.


Last edited by tencentlife on Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wellington
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1676
Location: Montreal
Wellington is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tencents, will you offer kits, premodified rods and piston sets or just complete motors? The time it takes to mike, modify and CC the pistons, for yourself is fine but if you have to charge for it, the Chineese pistons probably aren't a deal. Plus rings.
Still, an excellent project and an inspiration to us all. I'm still sitting on the fence, have bought most parts except 2.2 specific, that being rods, pistons and cam. Maybe I need my present motor to give signs of giving up to make me go forward.
Excellent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9995
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kits is an idea I hadn't thought of, but then I don't think you could do this that way. You're right, by the time you take a low-priced but decent quality item and customise it for a special application, then sell it profitably for that application, the buyer is paying a large portion of the cost of having the same item custom-made from scratch.

It's different when I'm customising the same item to sell as part of a completed motor. You just can't bill the work at a fair hourly rate that goes into a well-built motor. If you did it would cost many thousands more. For someone like me, it really is a marginally-profitable labor of love.

There is still another angle: I was talking with my old boss Jim at FAST the other day about when I used to build motors for him. We only used the best parts from strictly OEM suppliers. We both agreed that the motors themselves weren't profitable, but that by doing it right there were very few warranty claims, and we had happy customers who kept on coming in for all their other service, even when they got a newer car. That's what's called a "loss leader". But I'm not in that business either; I'm not running a public shop, I just want to build a few custom motors per year for appreciative customers.

I decided to try this with the QSC pistons on my own engine because they were a small investment so if it didn't work out, I'm not out much. It was a way to make something good out of the several low CR versions of wbx pistons that are on the market. I have the Cofaps and QSC's; I can say that the quality of materials and construction is perfectly good, but they both got one critical dimension wrong. I haven't had the AA pistons in my hand, but they suffer from the same problem. But by using longer rods, the problem becomes an asset, and at a low cash investment. Longer rods also help low-end torque, and increase the rod/stroke ratio, meaning less angular strain on the rod big ends, which was apparently a contributor to the rod failures that plagued the 2.1 wbx.

I looked into having custom pistons made at Wiseco or JE. It would be well over $600 per set of 4, and I still don't have the cylinders. The P&L sets GW sells are actually a bargain. But my main aim is to build high CR wbx's, because that's where VW went wrong with the wbx motors they sent to the US. GW is doing a nice job but in my view perpetuating that mistake. Their pistons are designed for low CR. In fact, their newest motors have lower CR than the ones on offer a year ago.

I want to go in the opposite direction, because this engine is inherently able to handle high compression, and high CR equals more power and efficiency from a small displacement. The DJ version wbx VW sold in some Euro markets had 10.5:1 static CR. It used the same exact cam as the MV US version, so it had over 9.7:1 dynamic CR. There are a number of them in Canada and the US, and reports are that they run ping-free on mid-grade US pump gas. So that's the model I'm following, but with other enhancements that get even more power out of a similar foundation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bucko
Samba Member


Joined: December 09, 2004
Posts: 2617
Location: Coppell, Texas
bucko is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:


bucko, I'd be happy to let you have this motor, but you'll have to pick up the shipping. That'll be $4500, please.


Do you give green stamps?
_________________
Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia

Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9995
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why, got your eye on that patio furniture, eh?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bucko
Samba Member


Joined: December 09, 2004
Posts: 2617
Location: Coppell, Texas
bucko is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
Why, got your eye on that patio furniture, eh?


Yep; only 300 books to go...
_________________
Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia

Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Perales
Samba Member


Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 2039
Location: Montreal
Perales is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucko wrote:
tencentlife wrote:
Why, got your eye on that patio furniture, eh?


Yep; only 300 books to go...

Is it my imagination or are Bucko and 10c starting to sound like an old married couple?
_________________
-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Alan Brase
Samba Member


Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4045
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
Alan Brase is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perales wrote:
starting to sound like an old married couple?

Enough family talk.
Back to engine parts:
Why do you suppose there is so much difference in the rod length?
Mady years ago I had some Chevy small block rods full floated with the use of pin bushings. (originals are pressed in pins)
I remember that when I had it done, there were two different machines that did this process. One was allegedly much better at keeping the center to center length uniform. I believe it was a Tobin Arp machine. Sorry, it was 30 years ago. Memory is getting a little fuzzy.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9995
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what your question is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Alan Brase
Samba Member


Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4045
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
Alan Brase is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

69doublecab wrote:

Back to engine parts:
Why do you suppose there is so much difference in the rod length?

Al

One would hope to keep tolerances to .001-2 on the rods and the pistons. I'd guess the cases to be machined pretty accurately. Hopefully, with this level of precision, one could cut all the pistons to the same height, without having to re-cut the valve pockets.

Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9995
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, OK, I thought you were still interested in the different nominal lengths.

Why were my rods so different, that's what you want to know. I'm not sure they were. I had two full sets modified by a very experienced old-time machinist, in the biz almost 60 years. He did a great job, as he always does. I quickly checked them all for length before using them. I saw no variance. After selecting them by weight (less than 2g variance among 8 rods), building the crank and case, then seeing so much difference in piston height, I measured the other set again more carefully to see if they varied in length. I could measure none to speak of, less than a thou anyway. I felt it safe to asume that his work was consistent, as he did all eight as the same job. That leaves the crank to explain the variance, as nothing else would account for it. I did measure stroke to try to explain it, but my measuring ability for that wasn't as accurate as for the other stuff (don't have a 3" throw dial indicator!). As it was I turned up a couple thou variance in stroke, but that's inconclusive. Could John have messed up on 3 out of 8 rods, and I happened to pick those 3 to put on this crank? Not impossible, but quite unlikely. Anyway, this engine will be torn down in a year anyway, and at that time I'll mike everything again. The crank might need to be reground to correct the throw variance, if that's where the problem lays.

The valve pockets are plenty deep, so I didn't need to cut them at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Tvättbjörn
Samba Member


Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 1116
Location: SoCal
Tvättbjörn is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why did you have to cut down one piston 2mm and not the others?? Where did the difference came from? Rod -piston - cylinder jugs ??? sounds like that something was off big time if it was only one piston you had to machine that much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9995
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They all got cut almost 2mm, by design. There was some variance between cylinders, about .2mm in total.
_________________
See innovative Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Hmmm, provincial much?:
Quote:
"I wouldn't go much on whats written on the samba, they love a "theory" and rarely ask any Europeans what is actually correct."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VladeSpado
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2007
Posts: 49

VladeSpado is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: Unbelievable Reply with quote

You are a true asset to the community. Thank you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9995
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you think so. It's all fun.
_________________
See innovative Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Hmmm, provincial much?:
Quote:
"I wouldn't go much on whats written on the samba, they love a "theory" and rarely ask any Europeans what is actually correct."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VladeSpado
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2007
Posts: 49

VladeSpado is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is real nice, thanks for all your help to just keep my vanagon running. You are the man.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB