6-in Speaker Door Install-- New and Improved!

[MrPolak]

4'' Infinity speakers sounds sweet considering their size. I used to have them in my previous Westy.

I have heard a set of 6'' Boston Acoustics with a matching pair of tweeters in the front doors of an '88 Westy, and they had a nice, full sound. Add a Bazooka sub (easy to move out of the way when camping) to make Paul Oakenfold really come alive.

[tsombrero1]

Never one to leave well enough alone, I decided to go about sealing up the big holes in the door as best I could. Supposedly this reduces bass cancellation. Why would you want to cancel a fish? I don't pretend to understand, but I did it anyway.

First I sturdied up the plastic adapter piece around the eight-o'clock mark with some epoxy putty.

Then I smeared some SecondSkin sludge around the inside of the door.

Then using more plastic bits, a couple spots of epoxy putty, and gorilla tape, I sealed up the holes as much as possible.

The result? It's definitely a more controlled, less boomy sound. A lot more even, and some annoying resonance is gone. It is also a little quieter-- I have to crank it up a lot more now to get the same overall volume. In all, the difference is more subtle than it was when I mounted the speaker directly to the door, but significant enough that I went ahead and did the other door too.

Next time I do this I'm going to try putting two 5 1/2" drivers in each door-- one in the stock location and one down low. Don't get me wrong, it's sounding pretty sweet, but it bugs me that about 25% of the 6 1/2" speaker is covered up by the dash!
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Tennessee Sombrero

1988 Westy, Syncro-nated
2003 Aprilia Caponord (now with Jif)
Atari 2600
1970 Earthbound Humanoid

[Robw_z]

Is there any problem with putting 6.5's down low in the door and then have a nice 4" speaker in the stock location ran through a crossover? I think it oughta work nice but I don't see why I haven't seen this done before?

-Rob

[tsombrero1]

[Lotek]

[squeegee_boy]

[quote="Lotek"]

[westylife]

I want some too! but I dont have power windows
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1983.5 Westfalia Bostig RG1

[shorepig]

Yes, I have resurrected this thread from the dead! I couldn't help it, but those door panels look so damn sexy, but how would the sound quality be? If I was going to that much expense and labor I would want to have the speakers arranged more efficiently. It is really nice looking, but...

if you are going to go to that much trouble to fabricate a new door panel, why not aim at least the tweeters in the right direction..towards the drivers ears. Or, to make it even easier, mount the 6.5" part of the component set down low in the kick panel, thereby pointing them straight towards the listener. I have been going crazy trying to come up with an ultimate front speaker system for my westy.

The higher the frequency the speaker output, the more directly pointed to the listener the sound should be. Highs are directional, where as bass notes are not. I think the ultimate set up for our westys would be a good quality component set up front, consisting of three speakers per side and a crossover to contol the range of fequancies to each speaker. For lows, a sub could be mounted somewhere in the rear. I wouldn't bother with rear speakers, or maybe just some 6.5's for mid bass (no tweeters) rear fill. If you put highs in the rear, they will cancel out the highs from the front, and it will sound crap. The sound stage should stay up front.

I think this would be the ultimate setup but I'm no expert, so chime in and let me know your thoughts:

1) 1-2" tweeters on the dash, pointed straight towards the listener. (1 per side)

2) 4" speakers in the doors (stock speaker location) for highs and mids (1 per side)

3) a 6.5" woofer, mounted in the bottom of the door or in a pod attached to the kick panel (doesn't have to be pointed towards the listener, because it will mainly be playing mid to low frequency notes). (1 per side)

4) I think the best spot to mount mid range speakers in the rear would be at the junction between the overhead closet and the spice racks. Right in the the corner created by that junction would be a good spot to locate some small pod enclosures for either 5.25's or 6" mid range speakers. Unless you want to give people in the rear seat some high freq sounds, I would not have any tweeters back there. If you do, highs from the back will compete with the highs from the front and mess up the "front sound stage" you've created with your front speakers.

5) To power all this I think a 4 ohm amp, which will put out at least 100 RMS per side would do the trick nicely for the front speakers. Anything less than this would not produce enough volume. For the rear filler speakers, I think a 75 rms per side would be plenty. Then there is the sub, and a mono (1 channel) amp that would be needed. The size of the sub, amp, and the subs location should be determined by your priorities. A small sub / amp combo is convenient because it can be moved easily or built inside a cupboard or under the front seat, but will it create the bass you want? A large sub, or multiple sub box and large amp will create lots of bass volume, but at the expense of taking up lots of our camper's interior.

My goal is NOT to create a LOUD sound system, but rather a system that will compensate for the large amounts of road noise our westfalias create. Equally important to creating a full range of sound with the speakers, is canceling out as much engine noise and road noise as possible. Sound deadening, dampening and absorbing materials can be used for this. From my experience, these sound canceling products have been the single most important step you can take to make your westy audio experience better. If you just simply add loud speakers and big amps to your westy, you will cover up some of the road noise, but it will still be there, and it will not make for a pleasant driving environment. With a loud, poor sounding system complete with road and engine noise, your ears will get tired, and your driving experience will be horrible! Let's face it, we spend a lot of time driving our van's, so I think this is an important topic.

I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on the westy sound debate!
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85 Westy
92 Mitsubishi Mighty Max 4x4 V6
74 Honda CB500T cafe racer
2013 ktm 690r
Sector nine pintail

[SteveVanB]

Well, not a westy but.....I'm runnin' Infinity seperates up front, The old school one's with the silk dome tweets & a 6" mid. Both in the doors, tweets up high, mids down low. Got some 6 1/2" coaxial Bostons in the rear hatch, again, the old school high quality stuff. The lows are handled with an 8" sub in a ported enclosure under the rear seat. All this is powered by a single amp. Again with the old school quality stuff, a Sony XM-3060. 4x55 watts and 1x120 watts for the sub. The gains are only turned up half way and it's PLENTY loud with NO distortion. Ideal set-up IMHO Oh yeah, I have a 6 channel a/d/s amp waiting to go in or sell, not sure yet.
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91 CARAT

[deides]

i just got THIS TODAY!!! now if only the snow could melt!! i want to install it!

no need for 6inch speakers anywhere! a set of 4inches and this is all you need! and it fits under the seat im told

[PDXWesty]

I would recommend that you do use an amp. It will drive your speakers more efficiently and actually use less power than the amp in the deck. Have you ever removed the ashtray and felt your deck after it's been playing for an hour? It gets really hot. I have 4" infinity's all around, but I added a sub to them. It more than fills it in and makes that techno thump.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[surfinwesty]

[shorepig]

Hey Surfinwesty,

That's pretty much what I just did to mine too. I used B-quiet ultimate sound deadener all over the outer door skin, with xtra behind the speaker (in stock location) then put a layer of 1/2 closed cell foam over all of that.



Then, I put another layer of the B-quiet on the back side and top of the fresh air vent duct, and then did the whole inside door skin, including covering up the openings on the inner door skin. I then fabricated a 1/2" thick surround to set my 5.25" speaker into (thanks TSOMBRERO for that idea!). This spacer was screwed into the metal of the inner door skin to secure the speaker solidly.

Before placing the door skin back on, I glued a very thin layer of closed cell foam (1/8" thick) to it.



Once all back together it sounded great, and the only rattle I could hear from the door was in the window crank, which was easily fixed.

Now, I am finding that I really like the sound of the speakers, but I STILL WANT MORE SOUND!!! The speakers are Alpine Type R components 5.25" w/a 2" tweeter which are 40 RMS. The amp I am running to them is also rated at 40 watts per channel RMS, at 4 ohms. If I turn the gain up high on the amp the speakers can't handle it and begin to distort. Why would this be happening? I'm not sure if the amp is maxing out and distorting, or if it is the speaker distorting.

So anyways, aside from that issue the sound quality is great, and the imaging is pretty good. I still think I will be adding a 6.5 to the kick panel or the lower part of the door for more mid bass. In the next few days I
will have my sub box figured out and I have decided to go with a JL 10W6 V2 in a .6 cubic foot enclosure. It will be powered by an Alpine MRD M300 mono 340 RMS at 2 ohms.

I look forward to seeing surfinwestys pics. How is the rest of the audio install going? Have you finished the new vid yet?[/img]
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85 Westy
92 Mitsubishi Mighty Max 4x4 V6
74 Honda CB500T cafe racer
2013 ktm 690r
Sector nine pintail

[GhiaLover]

For all those wanted to do what tsombrero1 did and install 6.5" speakers in the stock door position, here's a cleaned up template that I created from his photo.

Better yet, you can download the PDF here:
http://www.greentreeroofing.ca/external/Samba/SpeakerDoorPlanFinal.pdf

When you print the PDF, be sure you choose "Scaling: none" and it should print out to the exact size.

[climberjohn]

heyo SciroccoLover,

Thanks for posting that pdf file!!! A full size template is very nice.
It will save many back and forth trips to the angle grinder.

Cheers!
CJ
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'86 Westy, 2.5 Subaru power
Know your limits. Exceed them often.

[MarkWard]

I read through the FAQ regarding speakers. I have been without a stereo since installing my AC. I used the radio cutout for center vents. Yesterday I installed a Clarion CMS1 marine unit. It is a remote mount tuner with a seperate control head. 40 watts per channel. It was nice to have the stereo back.

Well, now the 30 year old speakers sound "old". I am not interested in getting carried away. I'd like to just replace the existing speakers with something new and suitable without adding amps, crossovers, etc. I would like some "basic" replacement speaker recommendations or a link? I have been slowly adding sound deading and insulation not for stereo performance but to improve the interior sound and to assist the AC.

Thank you. mark
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[motelvw]

I love the 4" JL Audio's I put in up front.
The 4" Polks in back are not as good. Too midrangey.

Crutchfield has a good selection and good prices.

[madspaniard]

Like Mark, I'm also looking for a simple option to replace stock speakers without any need to modify panel or door. I think somewhere here on The Samba mentioned the Boston Acoustic S35 speakers but I'm not sure I remember correct.
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali

[MarkWard]

Update: After using the search feature further, came across exactly what I have in mind. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458623

I took the rear speakers out, by unscrewing them. I was able to "cut" the blaupunkt speaker from the factory housing per the instructions. The second one went easier. Unfortunately while looking at the dust screen, it fell to peices. It did not get damaged removing the speaker though. Just age I suppose. If I can come up with replacement dust screen, I will replace them during the speaker swap. I will tackle the front speakers after they arrive. I wanted to get an idea of how this would go. The rears had a little more flexibility if I screwed up. Good place to start

I also determined from reading that the single wire ground to the rear must go along with the wire. On the 82 camper, I removed the fresh air vents over the slider, but no wire. It is actually held along the way with clips behind the trim peice above the door. It would be difficult to fish the replacment wire through the protective shield with everything installed.

It looks like 50 feet of speaker wire should be plenty after measuring. I have the loom hanging from behind the passenger seat until I remove the headliner panel from over the driver's seat. I believe I can pull the new speaker wire though the old protective shield and reuse the clips. I'd like to see if I can fish the wire for the remote head up through the A pillar and mount the head to the headliner board while I have the board out. It is a fairly large din plug.

All in all, fairly successful project so far thanks to the others that have been down this road. I will end up with a stereo and air conditioning but still a fairly stock look, which is important to me. Thank you Samba. mark
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[dubbified]