My S & S Muffler after 1 month...

[pete000]

So far this muffler is pretty cool. Makes my bus sound a bit more like a VW. Not overly loud but for sure louder than stock. I like the larger tail pipe too. I poped for the ceramic coating and so far it still looks new. Time will tell. I will post some pics over time to see its durability. I have heard horror stories about these pipes. One note, the thing is less than half the weight of the stock system !

One dissapointment is that it hangs crooked under the bus. Not sure why they welded it up like that. would have been easy to do it straight.

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1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
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Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

[Mikees86TransSyncro]

Pffft - You got your on? I'm happy for you - mine would not fit without MAJOR mods - I could not be more dissappointed - can't WAIT to go back to a stock setup
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Posted Completed Projects -
Syncro Audi 5000cs Front Disc Brake Conversion
Mercedes 16inch Rims, 225/75-16 Khumho Tires

Pending Postings -
Audi 5000CS Rear Disc Brake Conversion
Front Skid-Plate, bumper, winch install
Full Body Brush Guard

..........Spacers Bad, Bery, Bery Bad.........

[iceracer]

As much as I like the s and s I have for sound and performance and weight reasons. They do not hold up in terms of strength. The baffles inside of both of mine are loose and rattle when cold and the hangers broke off so I had to weld them back on. Mine were bought in 2005 and 2006. I think their workmanship currently sucks. And they do not hold up well to the midwestern salt. A friend of mine bought the ceramic and it shows signs of rusting too. If you are in a state w/o salt you will be fine but watch the baffles and the hangers. They will break. My .02
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86 Syncro Wolfsburg edition
63 Beetle (The Iceracer)

[mellow cat]

S & S headers are always a hard lesson.....sometimes you just have to find out for yourself no matter what everbody else says.

[McVanagon]

I learned two lessons with the S&S muffler I put on my 1.9 a few years ago.

1) That silly million degree spray paint is a joke.
2) They start rusting as soon as you open the package.

It was cheap, and I liked the way it sounded. I had to fab two little brackets to hook it up to the stock hardware.

I would be interested to see how that ceramic coating fairs....

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'69 Mike
'85 GL
'87 Wolfsburg Hardtop

[dart330]

Here is a decent write-up on the system.

http://www.251.org/i/87Vanagon-S%26S.html

After seeing it installed in person, I would never buy one.

[iceracer]

What I don't understand is that there seem to be only two options for exhaust on the Vanagons. Original or S&S. You would think someone else out there would develop another system. Time for me to start planning, hmmmmmmmmm
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86 Syncro Wolfsburg edition
63 Beetle (The Iceracer)

[McVanagon]

Someone, somewhere, makes a Stainless system for us.

I can't remember who, how well it fit, but I do rememeber how quickly I decided against it right after I saw the price....
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'69 Mike
'85 GL
'87 Wolfsburg Hardtop

[dart330]

[pete000]

I new posting this would spark something. I wish some one would fab up a nice system for the 2.1. This pipe is so simple I can't believe no one with a shop dosent put something together. If I had a shop I would do it.

I like the performace aspect of the S & S but I agree the quality is not so hot. I would like a nice Borla Stainless muffler with a good bracket. I guess I might try to find a custom shop to fab it up for me when this thing falls apart. For now its a hoot to hear this thing running.
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

[Perales]

Terry Kay sells one
http://community-2.webtv.net/VanStuff/VanagonWestfalia/
looks pretty decent to me.
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-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino)

[allsierra123]

I have talked to terry about his stuff. I am thinking of purchasing from him. and if you talk to him you might be surprised what he can make. And he has an unconditional lifetime warranty on it.
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95 GMC Yukon 6.5 TD 2 Door Tow pig/ Daily driver.
91 Vanagon GL. 1.9TD Conversion Sold
81 Vw rabbit 1.6 Diesel. Sold

[mellow cat]

In case there is something I'm missing? What exactly is the problem with the factory pipes.

I don't want to sound like a "Richard" but, In the loose definition of a header system, the factory Vanagon pipes are included. Waterboxers are not limited in there ability to breath on the exhaust side. It is on the intake side.

Old news to some, but true as the day is long.

Anybody attempting to post better performance numbers out of a optional exhaust system is just "selling" you something.

Ahhh stainless....if I had money I would buy the stuff for the exhaust "note" alone.

MC

[otiswesty]

My van had the S&S headers on it when I bought it but with an aftermarket stock look muffler. Worked fine at first, rusted through in about a year, both the muffler and headers.

I bought the stainless headers from Frank Condelli, along with a stainless J-pipe. As far as I know, there is no stainless version of the collector so I used the 3 to 1 cast iron manifold and had it ceramic coated along with the headers and other exhaust pieces.

I just bought a flow through version of the stainless muffler that Terry Kay sells off his website: http://community.webtv.net/VanStuff/VanagonWestfalia
I didn't use his tailpipe as I didn't like the look, and have a nicer looking stainless one from www.syncro-services.com
The muffler isn't installed yet as I didn't know about Terry's product until after I redid the exhaust. Currently using a ceramic coated Bus Depot Dansk muffler. I'll post fit and tone comments once installed, but it will probably not be right away

The round stainless version looks pretty good, but I was a little disappointed, expecting an "identical to stock but stainless" version.

[pete000]

To me its not so much about the Performace as the tone, tail pipe style and weight. I don't like loud but I like a nice tone. the S & S is fair in that department. These mufflers are always a hot topic on the Samba.

Those stainless units are really nicly made, I might have to try the one he terms as a performance turbo version when the S & S dies...
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

[csclassics]

I recently bought a S & S exhaust from Bus Depot. I found it to be ok to install, not easy, but not overly hard. I was disappointed that it didn't come with the correct bolts to put it together. It rattles sometimes on the engine craddle mount and it leaked at one of the slip connections. I put on a clamp and fixed the leak and have learned to live with the occasional rattle that it makes. It does have a nice tone to it and I do like the look of the bigger tailpipe. Its only been on about a month and a half and from what everyone is saying, it probably won't last too long and I will probably go back to stock when I have to replace it. Maybe stainless.
***Oh, and I work at a custom exhaust shop that builds for Audi and VW. I have been harping on them to build a Vanagon stainless exhaust and put it into production. Though I doubt they will ever go for it. I may build my next exhaust myself. We'll see.

[pete000]

[pete000]

Well it lasted almost 3 months ! with out failure. This might be a new record for an S&S !

The mounting bracket broke off. I bolted on a bit of steel to see if i can get some more out of it.

The ceramic coating is starting to show signs of rust around the welds. I think it is rusting on the inside out.

I give this thing less than a year !

VERDICT ( YES you all are very correct, S&S is in the buisness of stealing peoples money)

These systems are absolutly JUNK !

I could build a better system from pop cans !
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

[devesvws]

mine is about 3 yrs old i got it at advance for about $120

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[Jon_slider]

I had the TK flow thru muffler.. it looked OK, and was actually very quiet, but the tail pipe was only welded to the end of the muffler.. it broke off within 3 days.

Terry did not refund my money, and he did not replace the muffler with a new one, and he did not sell off one of his stock new ones to reimburse me..

instead, he had the muffler repaired and sent it back to me.. it now does not look new at all.. and he sent it back without a tail pipe.. which is OK cause the tail pipe setup is bogus.. there is a huge flange adding weight past the attachment point of the tailpipe to the muffler

if anyone wants to see the muffler, or buy it, it is at HR Motors waiting for anyone interested.. I paid $400 delivered.. will sell for $250

I currently run a Stainless Muffler I got from Tom Shiels http://subaruvanagon.com/tom/SS%20Exhaust/Exhaust.htm .. It is shorter and louder than the stock muffler.. But the tail pipe has not fallen off.

I recommend Tom Shiels, he stands behind his products and will refund if not satisfied.

I do not recommend Terry Kay, because he kept my money, refused to refund the defective product, did not, as claimed, replace it with a new one. What he sent me back looks repaired and used, hard to resell..

Jonathan