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johnshenry 
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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 Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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I just looked at my fat one, and it is a "TK 12/3" does that mean it is 12 volt? Anyone know what cars used it???
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Suboval
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2003
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Sept. 1950 Spare Parts List (Main Group 9, Item #20, pg. 177) shows a TL 6/1.
1954 Stahlgruber Catalog (pg. 1516) shows TE 6 A 3.
Calling Dr. Documentation (IN2VWS) |
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splitpartsunlimited
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Joined: January 18, 2006
Posts: 1251
Location: Good Ol`Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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my split`s owner manual clearly shows a star coil both in the service section and in the translucent car drawing at the end of the manual
Ricardo ....
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HeSa
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Joined: January 15, 2007
Posts: 466
Location: FINLAND
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Zwitter and earlier spare parts book:
"Coil TE 6 A 3 - Ingnition, interchangeable with coil TE 6/3".
In the late 1953 edition of the original VW workshop manual all illustrations show the "modern" 1960s design coil. Even together with VE4BRS383. |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| I just looked at my fat one, and it is a "TK 12/3" does that mean it is 12 volt? Anyone know what cars used it??? |
Anyone??? Anyone????
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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HeSa
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2007
Posts: 466
Location: FINLAND
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Here´s a picture of the 1952 Bosch spare parts book again. It shows that the Barndoor coil changed from TL 6/1 (the skinny star) to TE 6 A 3 on 1st Nov 1950.
There is no reason to believe that this change would not have happened at the same time for Beetle. Especially when the Beetle section of the same book says the change took place between 1947 and 1950. And because the September 1950 VW spare parts list still shows TL 6/1. And beacuse the same change took place with other car manufacturers at the same time.
So untill otherwise proven by period original documents (VW or Bosch) the only correct coil for Splits from November 1950 is TE 6 A 3. An acceptable version for Zwitters is TE 6/3 which VW lists interchangeable in the Zwitter spare parts manual.
I´d be very interested in seeing a picture of a TE 6 A 3. Both of the TE 6 coils I have are TE 6/3. They are the same design as the fat TE 6 in the catalogue picture. And not star coils.
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HeSa
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2007
Posts: 466
Location: FINLAND
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| I just looked at my fat one, and it is a "TK 12/3" does that mean it is 12 volt? Anyone know what cars used it??? |
Anyone??? Anyone???? |
Just a sec Sir John, I am very busy studying the 1952 Bosch book and busting the skinny star coil myth. I´ll go through the book soon and look if I can find you coil. I have one of those as well. Btw with a original red Bosch sticker - makes me wonder if that was the case with the early 6 volt stars as well.
Btw another observation from the book is that TE 6 A3 and TL 6/1 seem to be used together with W 175 T1 (correct for Beetle) spark plugs and TK 6 A 3 with W 145 T1 plugs. Porsche 356 is the only exception that I noticed (W 225 T1 or W 240 T1 with TK 6 A 3).
These combinations should probaly be observed to avoid any damage to the engine.
TK 6 A 3 (the "Porsche fat star coil") is the most common coil used for cars that Bosch was manufacturing coils for in 1947-1951. |
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HeSa
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2007
Posts: 466
Location: FINLAND
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| I just looked at my fat one, and it is a "TK 12/3" does that mean it is 12 volt? Anyone know what cars used it??? |
Anyone??? Anyone???? |
It seems that the slash "/" models did not exist before the time in 1952 when my book was published. But with the Zwitter parts manual logic TK 12 A 3 would be interchangeable with TK 12/3.
TK 12 A 3 is good for 1947-1950 Ford 1-3 Tons trucks, 1947-1949 Ford V8 Bus but also for Daimler - Benz 300 from 1952. Now whether it is good for Adenauer, 300 SL or Gullwing is quite equal. It makes your coil 10x more valuable than a split coil. If it works.
edit: "Congratulations" end edit  |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| HeSa wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| I just looked at my fat one, and it is a "TK 12/3" does that mean it is 12 volt? Anyone know what cars used it??? |
Anyone??? Anyone???? |
It seems that the slash "/" models did not exist before the time in 1952 when my book was published. But with the Zwitter parts manual logic TK 12 A 3 would be interchangeable with TK 12/3.
TK 12 A 3 is good for 1947-1950 Ford 1-3 Tons trucks, 1947-1949 Ford V8 Bus but also for Daimler - Benz 300 from 1952. Now whether it is good for Adenauer, 300 SL or Gullwing is quite equal. It makes your coil 10x more valuable than a split coil. If it works.
edit: "Congratulations" end edit |
Thanks! Any chance you could post or send me a pic of the page that lists the 12 A3 ??
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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HeSa
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2007
Posts: 466
Location: FINLAND
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| virtanen wrote: |
My thin TL 6/1 dia is ca. 52.2 mm
My fat TK6/3 dia is ca. 63.8 mm |
And my TE 6/3 coils are 60mm. This coil is listed in the Zwitter only parts manual as interchangeable to TE 6 A 3.
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IN2VWS
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Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| HeSa wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| I just looked at my fat one, and it is a "TK 12/3" does that mean it is 12 volt? Anyone know what cars used it??? |
Anyone??? Anyone???? |
It seems that the slash "/" models did not exist before the time in 1952 when my book was published. But with the Zwitter parts manual logic TK 12 A 3 would be interchangeable with TK 12/3.
TK 12 A 3 is good for 1947-1950 Ford 1-3 Tons trucks, 1947-1949 Ford V8 Bus but also for Daimler - Benz 300 from 1952. Now whether it is good for Adenauer, 300 SL or Gullwing is quite equal. It makes your coil 10x more valuable than a split coil. If it works.
edit: "Congratulations" end edit |
Agree with HeSa. The 1950 version of the Boschbook that HeSa is looking at says the TK 12/3 is for 6 cylinder and larger engines.
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
| HeSa wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| I just looked at my fat one, and it is a "TK 12/3" does that mean it is 12 volt? Anyone know what cars used it??? |
Anyone??? Anyone???? |
It seems that the slash "/" models did not exist before the time in 1952 when my book was published. But with the Zwitter parts manual logic TK 12 A 3 would be interchangeable with TK 12/3.
TK 12 A 3 is good for 1947-1950 Ford 1-3 Tons trucks, 1947-1949 Ford V8 Bus but also for Daimler - Benz 300 from 1952. Now whether it is good for Adenauer, 300 SL or Gullwing is quite equal. It makes your coil 10x more valuable than a split coil. If it works.
edit: "Congratulations" end edit |
Agree with HeSa. The 1950 version of the Boschbook that HeSa is looking at says the TK 12/3 is for 6 cylinder and larger engines. |
But it would still be 6 volt n'est pas?
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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HeSa
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2007
Posts: 466
Location: FINLAND
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| 12 Volts. I sent you a pm for the picture. |
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scvw
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Joined: September 02, 2006
Posts: 3544
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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So this isn't the correct coil that I should be running on my '57 bus? 
I have been meaning to change it out for awhile now. Just don't have a nice replacement handy. I knew that it was a split era coil just didn't know it was a '50 or earlier one. Might be time to make the switch while it is still working good.
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franklinunes
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Joined: August 06, 2007
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| HeSa wrote: |
Here´s a picture of the 1952 Bosch spare parts book again. It shows that the Barndoor coil changed from TL 6/1 (the skinny star) to TE 6 A 3 on 1st Nov 1950.
There is no reason to believe that this change would not have happened at the same time for Beetle. Especially when the Beetle section of the same book says the change took place between 1947 and 1950. And because the September 1950 VW spare parts list still shows TL 6/1. And beacuse the same change took place with other car manufacturers at the same time.
So untill otherwise proven by period original documents (VW or Bosch) the only correct coil for Splits from November 1950 is TE 6 A 3. An acceptable version for Zwitters is TE 6/3 which VW lists interchangeable in the Zwitter spare parts manual.
I´d be very interested in seeing a picture of a TE 6 A 3. Both of the TE 6 coils I have are TE 6/3. They are the same design as the fat TE 6 in the catalogue picture. And not star coils. |
Here is a TE 6 A 3 coil i can provide better pictures, this is which i believe the correct one from my split september 1952 engine, the engine was out of the car and all spare parts in a box (the last owner had a 36hp in the car and never sent away the matching split engine ) sooo TE 6 A 3 after what i was reading here in my opinion is the correct coil for split, at least was connected to my engine dismatled with the parts in a box.
regards.
Last edited by franklinunes on Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nlorntson
Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004
Posts: 3783
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| HeSa wrote: |
Here´s a picture of the 1952 Bosch spare parts book again. It shows that the Barndoor coil changed from TL 6/1 (the skinny star) to TE 6 A 3 on 1st Nov 1950.
There is no reason to believe that this change would not have happened at the same time for Beetle. Especially when the Beetle section of the same book says the change took place between 1947 and 1950. And because the September 1950 VW spare parts list still shows TL 6/1. And beacuse the same change took place with other car manufacturers at the same time.
So untill otherwise proven by period original documents (VW or Bosch) the only correct coil for Splits from November 1950 is TE 6 A 3. An acceptable version for Zwitters is TE 6/3 which VW lists interchangeable in the Zwitter spare parts manual.
I´d be very interested in seeing a picture of a TE 6 A 3. Both of the TE 6 coils I have are TE 6/3. They are the same design as the fat TE 6 in the catalogue picture. And not star coils. |
I have a TE6A3 coil sitting on the shelf if someone needs a closer look.
On a related note, how would one go about bench testing a coil to see if it is OK? |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| nlorntson wrote: |
| HeSa wrote: |
Here´s a picture of the 1952 Bosch spare parts book again. It shows that the Barndoor coil changed from TL 6/1 (the skinny star) to TE 6 A 3 on 1st Nov 1950.
There is no reason to believe that this change would not have happened at the same time for Beetle. Especially when the Beetle section of the same book says the change took place between 1947 and 1950. And because the September 1950 VW spare parts list still shows TL 6/1. And beacuse the same change took place with other car manufacturers at the same time.
So untill otherwise proven by period original documents (VW or Bosch) the only correct coil for Splits from November 1950 is TE 6 A 3. An acceptable version for Zwitters is TE 6/3 which VW lists interchangeable in the Zwitter spare parts manual.
I´d be very interested in seeing a picture of a TE 6 A 3. Both of the TE 6 coils I have are TE 6/3. They are the same design as the fat TE 6 in the catalogue picture. And not star coils. |
I have a TE6A3 coil sitting on the shelf if someone needs a closer look.
On a related note, how would one go about bench testing a coil to see if it is OK? |
Bolt a piece of stiff wire to the coil bracket, and bend it like hook over the top, and down into the ignition lead hole a bit, but do not let it touch the conductor in there. Connect 12V + to the "1" terminal, and hook a wire to the "15" terminal. Touch the end of that wire to some bare metal on the bracket, and after a second or two, pull it away. When you pull it off the bracket, you should get a spark off the hook wire on the top of the coil, that jumps to the conductor inside. You are basically acting like points, when you pull the wire away, the points open. Magnetic field in the coil collapses and creates the high voltage surge....
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'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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nlorntson
Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004
Posts: 3783
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| Connect 12V + to the "1" terminal |
Really? Not 6V?
The rest makes sense. I'll have fun with electricity this weekend!
Thanks John. |
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johnshenry
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| nlorntson wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| Connect 12V + to the "1" terminal |
Really? Not 6V?
The rest makes sense. I'll have fun with electricity this weekend!
Thanks John. |
12volts if you want to see really big, bright sparks. 6V if you are more conservative
Yeah, I meant 6V.
Make sure you hold the "15" wire by its insulation when you touch it to the bracket and then remove. A decent current pulse is also generated in that wire when you pull it away and you will "feel" it if touching bare wire (that's what the condensor does, absorb that pulse).
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lzamora
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Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 109
Location: Torrance CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I have 3 coils.... One is a TE6B1, second is a TE6A3 and the third is a star coil TL 6/1. Im trying to figure out which one is correct for a January 53 Zwitter and a May 56 oval? Any help |
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