Author |
Message |
Suboval Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2003 Posts: 794
|
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
lzamora wrote: |
I have 3 coils.... One is a TE6B1, second is a TE6A3 and the third is a star coil TL 6/1. Im trying to figure out which one is correct for a January 53 Zwitter and a May 56 oval? Any help |
TL 6/1 was used before November 1, 1950
TE 6 A3 was used after November 1, 1950
TE6B1 was used on August 14, 1956 starting with chassis 1261493
See Progressive Refinements, Volume 1, Electrical TAB, E-14
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/progressive_refinements/ _________________ It all works on paper.
There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
|
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:11 am Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
I'm not seeing any mention of the fact that most Bosch parts, including coils have a date stamp on them. The code listing is in the Split Beetle FAQ's. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
I've just finished a group of coil testing/restorations. Two of them are curious abberations perhaps?
They are wide diameter TK 6 A 3's. according to the Bosch documentation that Andy (Glutamodo) and I were able to uncover these were used from 1947-1951. That's all fine except these coils have odd date stamps One is a bit vague but appears to be 2Q which is February 1961 or it could be 2 G but the G would have to be a lower case "g" which I have never seen on a Bosch part. The other coil is 5 S which is May 1959.
Andy and I would like to turn the question over to the collective consciousness: Would Bosch have manufactured these old large outdated design coils clear into the early 1960's?
I do know from my distributor restoration exprience that they continued some distributor designs and of course tune up parts for several years after they were no longer being installed on VW's. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
Here's an interesting coil that needs some sluething. It was removed from a split window Beetle many moons ago according to the seller.
It is 62.7 mm wide and 120.9 mm long not including the bakelite cap. Besides the 1 and 15 terminal markings the bakelite has a symbol that looks like a early Bosch "B" inside the circle with two horizontal lines. The clamp though has a five pointed star with what looks like "AVP" inside it. The bracket is original to the coil and is marked TL to the left of the star and 6/1 to the right.
It has 0.O4hms resistance from secondary to secondary and 6.6K ohms from secondary to primary. It appears very primitive with a rough lap joint to the jacket.
I know that before WW II Bosch had to partner with other firms located outside the Axis Powers in order to produce items in quantity and this may account for the odd maker marks. Any thoughts welcomed and appreciated.
I've searched pretty thuroughly for a date stamp but the housing and clamp are pretty rough so I may have missed it. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
|
Back to top |
|
|
janerick3 Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006 Posts: 1879 Location: Colorado
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
tasb wrote: |
I've just finished a group of coil testing/restorations. Two of them are curious abberations perhaps?
They are wide diameter TK 6 A 3's. according to the Bosch documentation that Andy (Glutamodo) and I were able to uncover these were used from 1947-1951. That's all fine except these coils have odd date stamps One is a bit vague but appears to be 2Q which is February 1961 or it could be 2 G but the G would have to be a lower case "g" which I have never seen on a Bosch part. The other coil is 5 S which is May 1959.
Andy and I would like to turn the question over to the collective consciousness: Would Bosch have manufactured these old large outdated design coils clear into the early 1960's?
I do know from my distributor restoration exprience that they continued some distributor designs and of course tune up parts for several years after they were no longer being installed on VW's. |
TK6A3 coils were used on 6-volt 356s through Dec 1963, when Bosch revamped their entire product line, to include new part numbering and date-coding systems. The "2Q" coil is Feb 1959 and the "5S" coil is May 1961. _________________ Thanks,
Jan K. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
To bolster the argument that the TL 6/1 was used before November 1, 1950; I have 5 of these coils, the date codes are:
12D Dec 1948
2F Feb 1950
5F May 1950
7F July 1950
8F Aug 1950 _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Brad Ripley Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2011 Posts: 17 Location: Sparks, NV
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
Here are relevant pages from Bosch catalogs, dated Oct 1950 and Jan 1962 . Hope it helps with the discussion.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
|
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
Is the TE6A3 the fat star coil with the lipped bottom? A link to a pic of one earlier in this thread is dead. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Suboval Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2003 Posts: 794
|
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
johnshenry wrote: |
Is the TE6A3 the fat star coil with the lipped bottom? A link to a pic of one earlier in this thread is dead. |
It is a thin coil with no star.
Early:
Late:
_________________ It all works on paper.
There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Suboval Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2003 Posts: 794
|
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
Does anyone have anything else to add? Needs to be changed?
1946-1948: TL 6/1 moon (non star)
1949: ?
1950: TL 6/1 (star)
1951-1953: TK 6/3 (TK 6 A 3), TE 6/3 Zwitter?
1954-08/13/1956: TE 6 A 3 (Early on bakelite, later on the end of the coil)
08/14/1956-07/1960: TE 6 B 1
08/1960-1963: TE 6 B 4
TL 6/1 moon coil
eurodub wrote: |
Hello,
i got this skinny coil thinking of using it for my split.. but further checking show that this is not even close to being ok for mine...
date stamp 1B (jan 1946? )
non star coil butt.. but the rest of the details are there. (click on the pics for bigger version. a lot bigger actually )
Is this correct for a 1946 VW ? i will not need it so it might end up in the classifieds, but i don't want to represent something that's not. I won't mind getting a real price range for it.
Thank you.
|
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548781&highlight=coil+moon
TL 6/1 star coil
HeSa wrote: |
Here are some captures from the "Bosch Blue Book" from 1952.
1951 Bug should have TE 6A3 (round pressing).
Bus section of the same catalog says the change from TL 6/1 (skinny star) to TE 6A3 (round pressing) took place on November 1st 1950 (1.11.1950).
Which IMHO means the star coil is incorrect for the majority of us split owners.
|
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=396320&highlight=tl
TK 6/3 star coil
Gustav Petri wrote: |
Could these be used on a split, what would they be correct for kübel swim , borgward, porsche, vw.
What would be the value on a NOS TK 6/3 today.
Thanks
|
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=396320&highlight=nos+star+coils
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=439802&highlight=tk6
TK 6 A 3
splitpartsunlimited wrote: |
dimensions seems similar to the fat star coil , dia 6.5 , body lenght 11.5 ....
asking because a would be german customer asked me for a repro of this one ....
any clue about this ??
i am also including a picture of a technical manual .......
thank you !!!
Ricardo |
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=281148&highlight=tk6
TE 6 A 3
It is a thin coil with no star.
Early:
Late:
[/quote]
TE 6/3
Zwitter?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=439802&highlight=zwitter+te6
TE6B1
TE6B1 was used on August 14, 1956 starting with chassis 1261493
See Progressive Refinements, Volume 1, Electrical TAB, E-14
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/progressive_refinements/ _________________ It all works on paper.
There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
|
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
To add, I picked up a "fatty"in Hessisch that is date coded 5F, May 1950, so they were making both kinds in the same month!?? And I have another skinny one with no date code. I have glass beaded it and looked at it with a magnifying glass, and there is no date code there....
johnshenry wrote: |
To bolster the argument that the TL 6/1 was used before November 1, 1950; I have 5 of these coils, the date codes are:
12D Dec 1948
2F Feb 1950
5F May 1950
7F July 1950
8F Aug 1950 |
_________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Suboval Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2003 Posts: 794
|
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
johnshenry wrote: |
To add, I picked up a "fatty"in Hessisch that is date coded 5F, May 1950, so they were making both kinds in the same month!?? And I have another skinny one with no date code. I have glass beaded it and looked at it with a magnifying glass, and there is no date code there....
johnshenry wrote: |
To bolster the argument that the TL 6/1 was used before November 1, 1950; I have 5 of these coils, the date codes are:
12D Dec 1948
2F Feb 1950
5F May 1950
7F July 1950
8F Aug 1950 |
|
Are your TL 6/1s star or moon (non star) coils? _________________ It all works on paper.
There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
|
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
Suboval wrote: |
johnshenry wrote: |
To add, I picked up a "fatty"in Hessisch that is date coded 5F, May 1950, so they were making both kinds in the same month!?? And I have another skinny one with no date code. I have glass beaded it and looked at it with a magnifying glass, and there is no date code there....
johnshenry wrote: |
To bolster the argument that the TL 6/1 was used before November 1, 1950; I have 5 of these coils, the date codes are:
12D Dec 1948
2F Feb 1950
5F May 1950
7F July 1950
8F Aug 1950 |
|
Are your TL 6/1s star or moon (non star) coils? |
My coils are "Allstars" LOL _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
56samba Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2015 Posts: 262 Location: Germany
|
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
johnshenry wrote: |
To add, I picked up a "fatty"in Hessisch that is date coded 5F, May 1950, so they were making both kinds in the same month!?? And I have another skinny one with no date code. I have glass beaded it and looked at it with a magnifying glass, and there is no date code there....
johnshenry wrote: |
To bolster the argument that the TL 6/1 was used before November 1, 1950; I have 5 of these coils, the date codes are:
12D Dec 1948
2F Feb 1950
5F May 1950
7F July 1950
8F Aug 1950 |
|
Was it the coil being offered by the guy with the heavily modified Barndoor next to the river/pond (I don't know)? I had it in my hand and purchased it, but then I was curious about the diameter and gave it back. Now you're the lucky guy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
|
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
56samba wrote: |
johnshenry wrote: |
To add, I picked up a "fatty"in Hessisch that is date coded 5F, May 1950, so they were making both kinds in the same month!?? And I have another skinny one with no date code. I have glass beaded it and looked at it with a magnifying glass, and there is no date code there....
johnshenry wrote: |
To bolster the argument that the TL 6/1 was used before November 1, 1950; I have 5 of these coils, the date codes are:
12D Dec 1948
2F Feb 1950
5F May 1950
7F July 1950
8F Aug 1950 |
|
Was it the coil being offered by the guy with the heavily modified Barndoor next to the river/pond (I don't know)? I had it in my hand and purchased it, but then I was curious about the diameter and gave it back. Now you're the lucky guy |
I don't recall, but probably not. I got it from a guy with a whole lot of other parts who had put them all aside for me before I got there and I don't think he ever put them out on his table before then. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vintage fiberglass Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2006 Posts: 485 Location: Reading, Pa
|
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
I just picked up a TE6/1 coil that has 3 posts on the top and it came off a 1948 engine?? Does not mean it is correct, but that is where it came from. Looks exactly like the fat coils with a smooth bottom but 3 posts? any ideas?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
56samba Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2015 Posts: 262 Location: Germany
|
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
vintage fiberglass wrote: |
I just picked up a TE6/1 coil that has 3 posts on the top and it came off a 1948 engine?? Does not mean it is correct, but that is where it came from. Looks exactly like the fat coils with a smooth bottom but 3 posts? any ideas?
|
I wish I could explain that in English, but my English isn't that good. Try google and look for "Clamp 16" or "Klemme 16", that's standardized.
Last Sunday, I also purchased the same coil as yours, but with a star on the backside. Then I realized, it has 3 posts and directly contacted the seller. He also had a TK 6/3 for me. He could keep the money and I got the right coil, we both were happy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Frederik Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Sweden
|
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
Suboval wrote: |
Does anyone have anything else to add? Needs to be changed?
1946-1948: TL 6/1 moon (non star)
1949: ?
1950: TL 6/1 (star)
1951-1953: TK 6/3 (TK 6 A 3), TE 6/3 Zwitter?
1954-08/13/1956: TE 6 A 3 (Early on bakelite, later on the end of the coil)
08/14/1956-07/1960: TE 6 B 1
08/1960-1963: TE 6 B 4
[b]
|
I don't think the 1954-1956 is fully correct and I have doubts about the 1951-1953.
This is a june 1953 (date code 6J) TE6A3 coil. The stamping is on the end not bakelite, painted bracket.
Last edited by Frederik on Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:25 am; edited 5 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Frederik Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2007 Posts: 578 Location: Sweden
|
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
I don't think the "from january 1954" change in the vw workshop manual refers to the change of coil but the change to "vju" style distributors and because of this should not be taken as a proof of thats when they started using the TE6A3 coil. It also important to remember that the part VW/ Bosch refers to in the old manuals might be what they thought was the correct when that manual was printed, and that is not always what was correct when the car was built.
From the Swedish official VW workshop manual (1952-), but this two papers are printed/updated 1956 and 1958. I think the "TK6/3" is strange as Bosch would have used the TK6A3 "numbering" by then/ at least from 1952. I don't know the exact date for this, but TK6/3 was replaced by TK6A3, TE6/3 -> TE6A3 and so on. I know the pictures are "generic"/ "re-used" but it clearly no TK6/.. coil in any pictures, maybe TK6A.. but I doubt it. This makes me think the "TK6/3" might be a printing error, they (VW) intended to use the TK6/3 or that it might have been correct for a short period when they first printed the book and they just left it there/ didn't uppdate it. I would trust HeSa's 1952 Bosch blue Book more on this. You also have the chassie number 1 261 493 when they changed to the TE6B1 coil.
This is from the Bosch parts Book printed 1958.
And they list the TE6B3 as spare part for all VW and TK6A4 (thats a blue coil) for all Porsche except carrera. With this I just want to highlight that you should take what they list as spare part and what was on from factory as two different things when looking in old books. Even when they are printed in the correct era.
TK6A4 blue coil. Also stamped in the end not bakelite. Date code 12H = december 1952.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
noheb Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2005 Posts: 168 Location: Denmark, Europe
|
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Coil discussion |
|
|
Hi, am I correct that the coil
TE 6A3 (11.1950 to 8.1956) had various designs?
- Star coil
- Lipped upper edge but no star in the top
- Tall coil with loose strap with oval hole
. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|