Timing specs ~ How to time your Vanagon

[deprivation]

[westylife]

[tencentlife]

With a 1.9, the marks on the pulley will be reversed: the U-notch is still TDC, but the V-notch for timing is to its left, for 5 deg. retarded. Doesn't matter as far as total advance measurement goes, you still start with the U-notch and make a mark 2" clockwise from there for your 35deg. advanced mark.

On the 1.9, to be safe, it's better to rev it to 3500 to be sure the advance is all in. You do this with everything connected as normal. Make the mark, get the engine completely warmed up, hook up the strobe, rev to 3500 and point the strobe at the pulley. If the mark falls to the right of the case centerline, it is not advanced enough so you move the diz a little counterclockwise to add advance, and vice versa.

Once you've dialed in the total advance, and afterward made any idle speed adjustments to compensate for changes in idle speed due to timing changes, you can point the strobe at the centerline at idle and the 5deg. retard mark should be aligned at idle. On a 1.9 all checks and adjustments at idle have to be done with the Digital idle Stabiliser bypassed.

As for a tach, you'll have to figure that out for yourself. You can buy a strobe at the FLAPS, I got one for about $60, that has a digital tach built in.
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[ccisco]

I dont mean to hijack the thread, and apologize in advance if I have. Tencent, which method would you use for a 2.1 that's running with the digijet system and a 1.9 diz (for the vac. lines)? Intuitively, for me andyway, it would seem you would use the the 1.9 procedure, due to diz, but, then, I think about the 2.1 cam and crank....?
Charlie

[tencentlife]

That question is moot with this procedure. Practically any Otto cycle gasoline engine will want to have somewhere close to 35deg. total spark advance under no load. That's the whole point of doing it this way, you don't have to be concerned with what the engine is supposed to idle at, what diz it has, how much advance comes in and how soon, and all that malarky. Almost any 4-stroke gasoline engine will run well when it has about 35deg. spark advance at an rpm where all its advance would be in, and under no load. This procedure establishes those conditions (warm up the engine, leave everything connected just as it would be when driving, and set the advance while holding the engine at an rpm where that engine's ignition system has added all the advance it will. Most engines, even higher revving ones, will have all their advance in by 3k or so, and if you are in doubt, then just rev it even higher, since past some particular rpm on ANY engine there will be no further advance added).

All the settings for idle timing and such are built around reaching something like this level of advance in the end, so why bother with all those arcane details and instead just cut to the chase? Simplification is the whole reason for doing it this way, and it works. This process reduces all that arcana to the one thing that matters. In almost every instance by doing it this way first you will find that at idle the timing is either right on or very close to the idle spec.

You can then make small further adjustments from there based on road-testing. On any engine, you may want to add or subtract a few degrees to fine-tune, but by using this method you get it to a spark timing that will give good to excellent performance in at least 90% of the engines out there (and no, aircooled engines are a small part of one-tenth of that other ten percent). The way Otto cycle engines burn fuel and make power is the same no matter which one you're talking about. The factors that would alter the optimum maximum timing are primarily effective compression and rod/stroke ratio. The vast majority of production engines have both these factors within a fairly moderate range, and the alterations in timing these factors actually dictate are very small, smaller than the ability of most backyard tuners to even accurately discern.

The thing that differs as far as carrying out the procedure is the diameter of the pulley or flywheel which you would use as a degree wheel. On the wbx engines, 35 deg. happens to be almost exactly 2" along the pulley circumference. On another engine, that measurement would vary with the diameter of the pulley, but a degree is a degree and it doesn't even matter how many cylinders the engine has, each cylinder would like to see its spark occur at about 35 degrees before TDC at mid-to-high rpms and no engine load, which simulates cruising conditions. How they get there varies, so you end up with all those little details and confusing procedures in all the manuals, but most of them want to end up in pretty much the same place.
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[westylife]

Thanks tencentlife for the help with the 1.9!!

Cheers,
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1983.5 Westfalia Bostig RG1

[WesternMassRich]

Hey, I am following 10 Cents timing procedure, or at least trying to,

I made a mark 2" clockwise from the V Notch, and marked it with a punch.

Warmed up the motor for about 10 minutes,

Revved up to about 3K RPM's........

The notch lines up with the seam on the engine casings but, it seems to line up before it reaches 3K RPM.

Am I supposed to tweak the distributor so the mark aligns with the seam at exactly 3K RPM's ?

The Syncro is running "ok: but not like it is perfectly timed.

Suggestions ? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - Over....

Rich

[WesternMassRich]

At idle, it hunts 50 to 100 RPMs and is slow off the line.

Then once I give it some gas it takes off pretty good.

I believe I am not doing something 100% correctly in accordance with 10 Cent's Timing Procedure,

I am open to rude comments, insults, suggestions and ignorant remarks.

Rich

[GoWestyYoungMan]

My question is specific to TDC...

My distrib had a small oil leak that I just fixed rebuild kit. When I re-install, do I need to find TDC beforehand? Nothing has moved vanwise.

I only eyeballed the cap position in relation to the nut on the clamp...do I have a 50/50 chance (because of the forked end) of installing correctly?

Thanks very much!

[t3 kopf]

ok, i figure this has been addressed before but i couldnt find it in the search. the posts here and the bentley both state that a 1.9l should have the v notch to the left of the u dish on the pulley and that the timing is 5degrees atdc. my DH engine's pulley has the v notch to the right of the u dish and i always time it to full advance 2" right of the v notch. which is right? the manual or my pulley? or maybe my pulley came from a 2.1? would that even fit?

EDIT: i just went out and looked at the pulley for the DH im rebuilding right now in my storage room and the v notch is to the left, so i guess i just answered my own question. ive been driving my van on the wrong timing this whole time
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'90 Carat w/ '95 phase 1 EJ22 OBD2 conversion

[t3 kopf]

im wondering if the TDC mark on the 2.1 pulley is in a different spot because of the longer stroke of the 2.1. i pulled the #1 plug and used a pen to find TDC and it was slightly to the right of the v notch. i made a mark 2 inches to the right of that and timed the engine all in to that mark. it seems to be running fine. if im correct than i was running about 10 degrees retarded before discovering i had a 2.1 pulley on my 1.9. engine number is DH016465. i feel about as retarded as my timing was for letting that simple discrepancy get passed me for so long.
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'90 Carat w/ '95 phase 1 EJ22 OBD2 conversion

[tencentlife]

Pulleys are identical except for the position of the V-notches. Dished TDC mark is very accurate. 2" CW from TDC is 35ºBTDC.
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Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[Phishman068]

This is a very useful thread, and I look forward to using it to properly time my engine next week!
Thanks!!!!
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[matteochiochetta]

Hi,
does anybody know how to read from a Lambda sensor with a multimeter if the CO/air ratio is correct?

Thank you
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Matteo Chiochetta

VW T3 syncro westfalia joker (1988-DJ)

[pinetreeporsche]

Here's a Q showing my ignorance as an older guy who learned what he knows from John Muir's "Idiot book" back in the era when I ran a 53-horse air-cooled with a carb. So maybe this is totally wrong for a 'modern fuel injected ('87 2.1 rebuilt as a 2.2 a few years ago)- but if it gives good results and doesn't hurt the motor, is it still OK to use?
As per Muir, we used to loosen the clamp nut so the distributor would move either way but not float free. Then start the motor, and at idle, twist the dist. for more advance, listening to the revs rise, till they started to fall. Then back it off 'a little'. OK, hardly scientific, but how about using that as a base, and then doing the 'listen test' mentioned a fe posts ago-- motor hatch off, strong acceleration, listening for any knock. Maybe compare the street results by doing a before and after test, a 'before' check with a stop watch the zero to 60 acceleration (or 70, even), then checking it again after the timing adjustment. And maybe getting a good miles per gallon tankful count before (yeah, a week before, maybe), and again in the week following-- to be sure I haven't done something that will cost me gas pennies every mile.

[jerryherb]

[Mark Lewalski]

Don't see this info in this thread yet...

This has a description, a downloadable template, and best of all: a video.
*NOTE: this is for the 2.1 engine*

Makes it all pretty simple to understand.

http://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=162

Thanks,
Mark
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'89 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg "Bluestar" (given to and owned by my son now)
'87 Vanagon Weekender
'74 Thing

[bobbyblack]

I think it funny that the GoWesty article mentions it is better to get the total advance at 3K, because the idle can be choppy... They don't want to say:

"You might have to buy our $380 TB kit to get your idle low enough"
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[mikemtnbike]

Mods- maybe I missed it, but doesn't look likes there a "how to set your timing thread" in FAQs. It may wander off topic, but this thread is titled correctly and contains all the necessaries...
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[augustwillo]