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Ian
Samba Moderator
Joined: August 28, 2002
Posts: 4932
Location: 713
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 Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Double G wrote: |
| I ground the bell housing out with the tranny in the bus with a 4" grinder and one spark from the trans mounting bolts is all it took for my flannel shirt to be in flames. Shirt was toast I was not...I finished the job with no other problems. Just pay attention to what you are doing. No sparks no fire. |
No dust no fire. 
_________________
All your Buses are belong to us.
Love and good roads!
IN LOVING MEMORY OF ROB CRESS 1968-2012
**ACHTUNG DO NOT USE AA BRAND PRODUCTS OR BUY ANYTHING FROM PACIFIC PARTS INTERNATIONAL IN CALIFORNIA** |
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big bus mike
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2004
Posts: 2230
Location: ABQ
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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A Tech at the shop I work at has a nifty transmission gauge tool that shows you where and how deep to cut. You can get them here:
www.zelenda.com
I have cut many transmissions in the past for 12v. The only fire I've ever had was my fault. It was late at night and I didn't have the correct tool, so I improvised. I was using a dremel and a cone shaped course sanding drum (because that's what I had on hand) of which the direct result was magnesium dust. As a general rule, it is MUCH easier to ignite dust than a solid chunk of metal.
I was covered in Mag dust, and I mean COVERED! (picture the tin man from the wizard of oz) and I accidentally hit one of the steel studs from the transmission mounts with the dremel, which shot a shower of sparks down my arm. The dust ignited and caused a flash fire on my arm. Before I knew what happened I had about a 2 inch pool of liquified flesh on my forearm. The fire burned itself out really quickly, and could have been MUCH worse, but I was lucky...
As it's been said, use a course toothed bit to have metal shavings rather than dust.
As far as catching the transmission itself on fire, It would take one helluva spark. Magnesium is flammible, yes, but the melting point of pure magnesuim is 651* C. Anyone who has tossed an engine case in a fire will tell you that it takes it a minute to catch, its not an instant thing.
It's also worth noting that a normal fire extinguisher will do NOTHING to a magnesuim fire. Most Class A, B & C extinguishers are CO-2 based. You must use a Class-D extinguisher to put out burning Mag. Class-D Extinguishers are usually Sodium Chloride based (yes, salt) and will sucessfully smother a mag-based fire. Water will only make the fire really rage out of control...
Be smart, use the right tools, and be prepared. |
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Ian
Samba Moderator
Joined: August 28, 2002
Posts: 4932
Location: 713
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| big bus mike wrote: |
A Tech at the shop I work at has a nifty transmission gauge tool that shows you where and how deep to cut. You can get them here:
www.zelenda.com
I have cut many transmissions in the past for 12v. The only fire I've ever had was my fault. It was late at night and I didn't have the correct tool, so I improvised. I was using a dremel and a cone shaped course sanding drum (because that's what I had on hand) of which the direct result was magnesium dust. As a general rule, it is MUCH easier to ignite dust than a solid chunk of metal.
I was covered in Mag dust, and I mean COVERED! (picture the tin man from the wizard of oz) and I accidentally hit one of the steel studs from the transmission mounts with the dremel, which shot a shower of sparks down my arm. The dust ignited and caused a flash fire on my arm. Before I knew what happened I had about a 2 inch pool of liquified flesh on my forearm. The fire burned itself out really quickly, and could have been MUCH worse, but I was lucky...
As it's been said, use a course toothed bit to have metal shavings rather than dust.
As far as catching the transmission itself on fire, It would take one helluva spark. Magnesium is flammible, yes, but the melting point of pure magnesuim is 651* C. Anyone who has tossed an engine case in a fire will tell you that it takes it a minute to catch, its not an instant thing.
It's also worth noting that a normal fire extinguisher will do NOTHING to a magnesuim fire. Most Class A, B & C extinguishers are CO-2 based. You must use a Class-D extinguisher to put out burning Mag. Class-D Extinguishers are usually Sodium Chloride based (yes, salt) and will sucessfully smother a mag-based fire. Water will only make the fire really rage out of control...
Be smart, use the right tools, and be prepared. |
Lind lent me his "Zelenda" tool. I didn't know a Class-D would put out magnesium?? REAL GOOD TO KNOW
_________________
All your Buses are belong to us.
Love and good roads!
IN LOVING MEMORY OF ROB CRESS 1968-2012
**ACHTUNG DO NOT USE AA BRAND PRODUCTS OR BUY ANYTHING FROM PACIFIC PARTS INTERNATIONAL IN CALIFORNIA** |
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Ace
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2003
Posts: 1903
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| People I know that worked with Magnesium always kept a bag of sand close by where they were working. |
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big bus mike
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2004
Posts: 2230
Location: ABQ
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Sand will smother the fire, as does the Sodium Chloride. CO2 extinguishers just suppress oxygen, but mag will burn in pure co2 just fine.
It was SOP on carriers in the navy that if a magnesium fire took hold to just push the aircraft overboard. It's that hard to put out. |
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jeremyrockjock
Samba Towbar Builder
Joined: January 01, 2002
Posts: 5008
Location: Richmond, Verjinya
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
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I have ground out several bell housings. Its not that big of a deal. I burn the savings for fun after I am finished.
_________________
Why buy what you can build.
Step away from the fiberglass and no one gets hurt!! |
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von Heimlich
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2004
Posts: 83
Location: Arizona City
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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I use a cylindrical rotary file. It cuts shavings like a pencil sharpener, but it does take a while.
<< My avatar is part of a roll of film I took after the farm-hands burned out our entire garage full of parts.
I asked one of the firemen what effect water had on magnesium fires. He said it acted as an accelerant. I pointed out my bus tranny sitting there in front of us burning white hot..."Thats magnesium".
There's nothing left of the case after the fire. Just the gears and bearings.
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Drive it. |
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Ian
Samba Moderator
Joined: August 28, 2002
Posts: 4932
Location: 713
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| von Heimlich wrote: |
I use a cylindrical rotary file. It cuts shavings like a pencil sharpener, but it does take a while.
<< My avatar is part of a roll of film I took after the farm-hands burned out our entire garage full of parts.
I asked one of the firemen what effect water had on magnesium fires. He said it acted as an accelerant. I pointed out my bus tranny sitting there in front of us burning white hot..."Thats magnesium".
There's nothing left of the case after the fire. Just the gears and bearings. |
Whoa! Your garage got burnt down?? Got pics of this ghostly transmission?
_________________
All your Buses are belong to us.
Love and good roads!
IN LOVING MEMORY OF ROB CRESS 1968-2012
**ACHTUNG DO NOT USE AA BRAND PRODUCTS OR BUY ANYTHING FROM PACIFIC PARTS INTERNATIONAL IN CALIFORNIA** |
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JamesT
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2003
Posts: 603
Location: East Sooke, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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It's always cool to see, since it leaves a pile of white ash in the shape of a transmission, with a gear stack and dif sitting as they were inside the case. The trick I learned after my third or fourth was to burn the case on it's side with the crown gear on the bottom (driver's side down for bug, passenger side for bus) so when it's all burnt, everything still sits in it's place. Engines aren't as cool to burn, but they leave the same kinda ghostly remains.
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-James T
1968 Kombi (Weekend warior project)
1982 Rabbit Pickup (Forever a project) |
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jeremyrockjock
Samba Towbar Builder
Joined: January 01, 2002
Posts: 5008
Location: Richmond, Verjinya
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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They are cool if you add oxygen. Aim a leave blower at it while it burns. Yeeehaww.
_________________
Why buy what you can build.
Step away from the fiberglass and no one gets hurt!! |
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von Heimlich
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2004
Posts: 83
Location: Arizona City
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. This is not a result of clearancing out the bell housing. This is what your tranny would look like though if it catches fire.
Long story short...
My friends and I moved to a big house with a field all around. We kept all our combined VW stuff inside and next to this garage. The lame farm help decided to burn the paper bags (in 40mph winds) after spreading the chemical powder all over the 126 acre field. (The bags were labeled "do not incinerate"). They took off, we fought the fire!
The day after I took these photos, I just left. I left it all behind and was totally disgusted at losing my bus and virtually all my spare parts. It happened in 1988 or so and the settlement was pretty lame..about $2000
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Drive it. |
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