Author |
Message |
54DoubleDoor Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2003 Posts: 128 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: 63 on Gearbox in a barndoor? |
|
|
Does anyone know what mods are required to acheive fitting a 63 on box in a barndoor.
Was chatting at the weekend in Sunny Brighton and got talking about this conversion in my panelvan. It would greatly improve its driving whilst keeping it stock looking.
The area that is cloudy to me is the nose cone end? what would be required around there.. i'm not wanting to cut the chassis about though.
Cheers
Deano _________________ 56 RHD UK Oval
58 RHD Oz Microbus |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6179
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
I thought a barndoor torsion housing was narrower than that of a 63, so wouldnt that mean the spring plates would not lign up at all with the RGB's? _________________ drive your split. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
54DoubleDoor Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2003 Posts: 128 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
hmmm.. it is
but i was under the impression it could be done somehow... maybe i'm wrong. _________________ 56 RHD UK Oval
58 RHD Oz Microbus |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6179
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
well, you could either narrow the axles on the 63 transmission (far from cost effective) or you could build offset spring plates to take up the width differed, similar to the offset spring plates used on straight axle lowering kits. _________________ drive your split. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69802 Location: Phoenix Metro
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
The ones I have seen use Barndoor axles and reduction boxes on a tunnel-case center section.
A guy on the site has this in his Barndoor Deluxe right now.
I'm not sure about the nosecone, maybe just use the regular split-case to tunnel-case conversion/solid mount? _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Last edited by EverettB on Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
52panelvan Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 350
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Deano,
I think its swap nose cone off Bd Box (thats the bit im not sure on).If not may be one of those adapter front mounts then for the back end get some aluminium spacers made up - 67Ben has some on his Bd (running this exact setup i think) and Clinton(Bergy) has just had some spacers made up - very nice too.
HT steel longer bolts and later split Spring plates used to match Red'n Boxes - job done and safely.
Pm Clinton or Ben for pics and details.
Cheers
Mark |
|
Back to top |
|
|
54DoubleDoor Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2003 Posts: 128 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey Mark,
is there an issue with the rear torsion tube being narrower though... visions of spring plates bending out to meet the Reduction boxes spring to mind _________________ 56 RHD UK Oval
58 RHD Oz Microbus |
|
Back to top |
|
|
52panelvan Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2006 Posts: 350
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thats what the Aluminium spacers are for, i think they are 2cm wide, they go between the spring plate and the reduction box to make the difference up and are drilled with the same bolt pattern as the later RDboxes (hence using later springplates). Then you use HT slightly longer bolts to pull it all tight. It all sits inline just fine. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
veskovici Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2006 Posts: 359 Location: Belgrade
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I thought that you can use before 67 Type 3 gearbox on barndoor and that axles are fit exactly to holes on the spring plates . Axle width is the same and holes clearance is the same. Only thing you have to modify is nose cone or to make adapter for front mount. Of course there is no reduction boxes and this is actually the way to lower your barndoor at the rear.
this is what I heard and even acquired before 67 type 3 gearbox for this purpose _________________ Oval 1954
Barndoor1954
Doubledoorsunroof |
|
Back to top |
|
|
low54 Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2004 Posts: 424 Location: cotswolds-england
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here you go deano
This is what the set-up is like this was done to my 54 before i bought it and it looks to have done a lot of miles like this i havent driven it yet so i do know what it works like i will have a look at the nose cone for you and see what is going on there.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
low54 Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2004 Posts: 424 Location: cotswolds-england
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
veskovici wrote: |
I thought that you can use before 67 Type 3 gearbox on barndoor and that axles are fit exactly to holes on the spring plates . Axle width is the same and holes clearance is the same. Only thing you have to modify is nose cone or to make adapter for front mount. Of course there is no reduction boxes and this is actually the way to lower your barndoor at the rear.
this is what I heard and even acquired before 67 type 3 gearbox for this purpose |
You can do this but i think deano wants to keep his 54 stock height but improve the gearbox |
|
Back to top |
|
|
streetwagens Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2005 Posts: 475 Location: Wales, GB
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hey Deano,
The '53 is running a later ribbed trans with bd reductions mated to it. Runs fine, takes a nosecone adaptor from tim Monkeyspinner to allow a later gearbox to be dropped in. You will need to grind some of the ribs down to allow the box to sit right. Still need to grind a little more on the '53, hence its 'wonky' look on the way to Germany.
If later reductions are needed, then you will require a pair of post '55 bus spring plates, and you will need to make some spacers up as Ben has above. This is due to the later bus having a wider torsion tube compared to barndoor. Handbrake cables will also need messing with, and dont forget, your track will be wider than stock. For this, you will also need to get the front mount and grind the ribs as above. _________________ To catch a fish, you must first think like a fish.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
barnduude Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2008 Posts: 91 Location: belgium
|
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: rear axle |
|
|
sled wrote: |
well, you could either narrow the axles on the 63 transmission (far from cost effective) or you could build offset spring plates to take up the width differed, similar to the offset spring plates used on straight axle lowering kits. |
alo, you don't need offset springplates on a staight axle mod.
you just have too take an axle from a '60 to '62 beetle change the nose, weld a mount for the nosecone on the torsion tube and ready.
i done the same whit mine.
grtz to all. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Monkeyspinner Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004 Posts: 69 Location: UK
|
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah keep the later gearbox nosecone, a splitcase one won't fit the box anyway. i have the adapters in stock, they make the front end solid mounted but this doesn't seem to cause any extra noise through the body or problems.
you will have to either clearance the strengthening section between the frame horns or the gearbox in that area as Mr Steetwagens says and use a spacer so the springplate meets the reduction boxes as shown above.
what shocks are you running? you will have to make a top mount up for running telescopics... _________________ Ovalbugbarndoorsinglecabsplitscreencampert4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
barnduude Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2008 Posts: 91 Location: belgium
|
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Monkeyspinner wrote: |
Yeah keep the later gearbox nosecone, a splitcase one won't fit the box anyway. i have the adapters in stock, they make the front end solid mounted but this doesn't seem to cause any extra noise through the body or problems.
you will have to either clearance the strengthening section between the frame horns or the gearbox in that area as Mr Steetwagens says and use a spacer so the springplate meets the reduction boxes as shown above.
what shocks are you running? you will have to make a top mount up for running telescopics... |
alo, i run telescopic shocks,i just drilled a hole in the plate under the rear seat.
and there are no spacers between the springplate and the axle
i posted some pics in the barndoor gallery.
see ya.i ment write you all. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
veskovici Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2006 Posts: 359 Location: Belgrade
|
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
barnduude wrote: |
Monkeyspinner wrote: |
Yeah keep the later gearbox nosecone, a splitcase one won't fit the box anyway. i have the adapters in stock, they make the front end solid mounted but this doesn't seem to cause any extra noise through the body or problems.
you will have to either clearance the strengthening section between the frame horns or the gearbox in that area as Mr Steetwagens says and use a spacer so the springplate meets the reduction boxes as shown above.
what shocks are you running? you will have to make a top mount up for running telescopics... |
alo, i run telescopic shocks,i just drilled a hole in the plate under the rear seat.
and there are no spacers between the springplate and the axle
i posted some pics in the barndoor gallery.
see ya.i ment write you all. |
And mounting /nose cone/ adapter pictures? _________________ Oval 1954
Barndoor1954
Doubledoorsunroof |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Scotty Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2003 Posts: 1531 Location: Northampton - Uk
|
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
One thing to point out when fitting a later style nosecone to an early bus is that the strengthening rib on the top of the nosecone fouls the top of the 'donut' mount housing. I chose to cut a slot in the mount rather than cut the rib off. I can always weld the slot up if I wanted to go back to stock. I have seen nosecones break that have had the rib cut off!
I had to clearance the gearbox central rib to fit my frame horn support tube:
I believe the later style support tube with the dip in the middle allows the box to fit without doing this, although I have no first hand experience of this.
It would seem the best way to get a late box with reduction boxes into a BD is (as Everett suggested near the top of the page) to put your BD reduction boxes and axles into a late box then everything will line up and you won't need to fit different spring plates. _________________
EverettB wrote: |
I'd be curious to know the length of his tip.
|
http://scottys-stuff.blogspot.com/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Scotty Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2003 Posts: 1531 Location: Northampton - Uk
|
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: Re: rear axle |
|
|
barnduude wrote: |
alo, you don't need offset springplates on a staight axle mod.
you just have too take an axle from a '60 to '62 beetle change the nose, weld a mount for the nosecone on the torsion tube and ready.
i done the same whit mine.
grtz to all. |
He doesn't want to fit a straight axle kit, he wants reduction boxes _________________
EverettB wrote: |
I'd be curious to know the length of his tip.
|
http://scottys-stuff.blogspot.com/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
54DoubleDoor Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2003 Posts: 128 Location: Hampshire, UK
|
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Scotty...
Does anyone know if the axles/tubes are interchangeable... Cause you can't get them outta the BD box with splitting the case.. wondered if there is anything different.
I assumed by keeping the barndoor axles/reduction boxes etc. then the adaptor wont be required either?
Running lever arm shocks too.. which would help in keeping them _________________ 56 RHD UK Oval
58 RHD Oz Microbus |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Monkeyspinner Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004 Posts: 69 Location: UK
|
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
I had a guy who came down to see me a couple of weeks ago in a 54 panel, he was running a late box with BD reduction boxes, shaft tubes etc, he said it was a bolt straight on conversion but i'm not sure what driveshafts he was running. i assume they were the BD ones but not sure. i have never had a split case box apart, maybe the driveshafts are the same once you actually get them out... i'm sure someone can enlighten us on this? _________________ Ovalbugbarndoorsinglecabsplitscreencampert4 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|