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yttkuar
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Hot Springs, AR
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 Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:10 pm Post subject: Stumped - no red light |
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Each spring I go over each of our VW's with the usual maintenance reviews. We have a 71 Weekender, a 71 Ghia, a 74 bug and a 73 Super Beetle. No problems with the first 3. My wife's Super has me stumped and I need ideas. CarCar started right up and I pulled it into the garage just like the others. I changed the oil, changed the transmission oil, a little grease, then I did the valves, put new plugs in and checked the timing, finishing up by a little TLC inside and checked the air pressure in the tires. Got into pull it out and NO RED light! No start, a small click but no crank of the starter. Nothing. Battery was fully charged. I sat there for several minutes trying to retrace my steps. With all the VW's we have, I have learned to be very patient and expectant of troubles out of nowhere.
A cup of coffee would help, I thought. While I sat there sipping away I remembered last season a couple or three times when I went out to start it and got the click of a weak battery, or so I thought. Waited a little while, charged it up and went on my way. At least twice I noticed the NOTHING working shock, but again after a another day it just started right up. Remembering that episode, I thought ignition switch must be kaput. This was the second switch in about 10 years, so not to worry.
However, I should have had the Gen light. Oil light was fine and directionals too. I suspected the switch but consulted the Idiot Book as well as TheSamba and Youtube. I followed the procedures just as they are listed. Pulled the 61 terminal at the regulator, grounded it and no light, checked the brushes on the generator and made sure they contacted the shiny commutator. Nothing. I jumped the starter and it is fine too. So now I put a new switch in and still no red light. Next I put a new regulator in, still no red light. Now I begin to figure wiring and that is where I am now. I have toned and traced 61, then checked the bulb and it is fine. I power probed everything I could and changed all the fuses. Then I lost the oil light too! Somehow I blew the #12 fuse. A new fuse and I am back to just no red light, no crank, no start. Any suggestions???? I wondered if it might have been something at the beginning, but after checking every connection and all that I stated above, I am stumped. |
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yttkuar
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Hot Springs, AR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Stumped - no red light |
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| A couple of days later: Well now I do have a gen light. I think I put the wrong loose wire (??) found near the regulator on the regulator when I changed it...BUT it now glows very dimly. Oil light is bright. Still no start no click. Earlier I jumped the starter and selenoid. Both jumps worked. Now only the selenoid jumps, the starter motor doesn't. Battery is low so charging it back up. Hopefully that might help. Back to the idiot book! |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16750
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Stumped - no red light |
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If I understand what you have posted, you have two issues:
1) Your GEN lamp does not work at all.
2) Your starter occasionally has an issue cranking the engine.
The GEN, OIL and turn indicator lamps at the bottom of the speedometer share a common ignition switched 12v+ power source (bottom most wire of the speedometer). Each of the blue wires running from the bulb holders runs to a switched ground which grounds the bulb so it turns ON.
Disconnect and test the bottom most wire of the speedometer and test it for 12v+ while the ignition key is in the ON/RUN position.
Next, with the ignition switch still ON, test that when you ground the far end of the blue wires the respective indicator lamp turns ON. Ground the wire at the oil pressure switch turns the OIL lamp ON. Ground the end of the #61 wire turns the GEN lamp ON. Grounding the indicator lamp wire at the flasher relay turns the turn indicator lamp ON.
| yttkuar wrote: |
| I followed the procedures just as they are listed. Pulled the 61 terminal at the regulator, grounded it and no light |
If the GEN lamp is known working (swap bulb+bulb holder with known good one) but grounding the #61 wire VR end does not light up the lamp, there is a disconnect between the bulb and the end of the wire. Run a new wire, even if just a temporary wire to confirm the wire is the problem.
The starter is powered directly from the ignition switch #50 (red/black) wire. Test the red/black wire at the plug at the bottom of the ignition switch for 12v+ when you turn the key to START. If the voltage is low or intermittent, you have a bad ignition switch.
If you have 12v at the ignition switch plug, find the red/black wire after it comes thru the grommet into the trunk. It will junction with a red or red/white wire running in the main harness on its way to the rear. Test the voltage at this junction.
Next, move to the junction under the left rear seat. Here the wire from the main harness junctions with a red wire in a sleeve that exits the rear of the pan next to the steel brake line on the left side of the tunnel. Test the voltage at this junction. If the voltage is low (less than 11.0v) but consistently more than 6.0v you could install a Bosch-style hard start relay (HSR) at this junction below the rear seat. The relay works off the voltage from the ignition switch but sends battery voltage from the battery post directly to the starter solenoid #50 terminal.
If the voltage is intermittent, consider cleaning all the wire connections from the battery, to the fuse box, to the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. Once you have cleaned these connections retest the voltage levels. The long wire run could result in a small voltage loss from start to end (0.5v) but more than that and you have excess resistance in the run.
If you find that the voltage is good before the ignition switch but low or intermittent after the switch, you may need to replace the ignition switch. Over time the internal contacts of the switch will get burnt and the resistance increases. You could attempt to disassemble the switch and clean the contact surfaces, or replace the switch. The addition of the above HSR reduces the current flow thru the switch contacts resulting in extending the life span of the switch contacts.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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yttkuar
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Hot Springs, AR
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Stumped - no red light |
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| Well I did as you suggested and found cleaning everything plus adding the hot start relay did the trick. I think mainly it was a case of just plain tired wires and slight corrosion along the way. I hope that does the trick. It has started several times since just fine. Thank you for your time in responding. TheSamba really is a great source. Now on to my 71 Ghia for its spring once over. |
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