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Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van
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PorschefanRoel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:18 am    Post subject: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

Hi all,

I'm having an issue with my bus, When I'm trying to start the bus it completely cuts off the power, turning the key back off and on brings back the power. I can easily see this by the voltage indicator on my dashboard.
I've made a video showing the issue:

Link


Some info about the van:
VW T2B
1976
1.7 Type 4 engine
Single Weber carburetor (32/36, with an electric choke)

As seen above, when I turn the key to start, the power is completely gone, turning the key back off and on again returns it, but I can't start the engine.

What have I done until now:
- I've checked the battery and it's completely full
- I've directly powered the starter motor, which starts without issues.
- Rotated the engine to see it isn't stuck.

After this, I've jumstarted the bus using my car, which i didn't think was the issue, as the battery was completely full. But I tried it anyway.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Which to my surprise started the van without any problems. So I turned the van back off and once again I've put the battery dripper back on, which told me the battery was completely charged.

After this I've started the van multiple times without any issues, so indeed the battery was full. Does someone have any idea what the starting issue can have been?

I've had this issue once before, a few months earlier, but back then I simply thought the battery was dead, as jumpstarting fixed it...

Hopefully some expertice here can help me a bit in the right direction Smile
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timvw7476
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:38 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

corrosion on the posts./terminals Clean, re-tighten.
Kind of a seasonal thing if the posts are not snug & the bus gets parked for weeks & weeks.
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PorschefanRoel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:33 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply,
is this still logical when I drove the van one week earlier? This was a trip of around 150KM, where the bus didn't have any starting issues?

Before that I must agree that the van didn't move a lot.
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crownline
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

Transmission ground strap corrosion where it connects. Also check battery ground where it connects to body. Clean grounds make a big difference.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

Problems can crop up suddenly, that's 100 percent normal. As others have said, you have bad connections somewhere in the high amperage electrical system, and most likely it's at the battery posts. The contact surfaces need to be cleaned to shiny metal as a corroded surface will not conduct electricity. I always put some vasoline on the posts and inside the cable end before assembling then and smear a bit more over to outside once things are assembled to lessen future corrosion. Also the battery cable and ground straps themselves could be bad as they are far from new at this point.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

All of the above....and if it has caps on the cells...check the electrolyte level on each one. Most of all, it could very well be a cracked plate in one cell or a cell dying from calcium riding inside....so basically a dead cell.

Dead cell shows full voltage and will not trip the charger but will fail a load test. Ray
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PorschefanRoel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

Thank you all for the responses, the battery itself isn't very old yet, so I'm hoping none of the cells died yet. I placed it in the spring of 2023.

The battery ground strap itself is corroded, so I will replace it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I will also check the transmission ground strap to see if it is corroded, and if so replace that one too.
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Slip356
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

You don’t have to replace them, just clean them all nice unless they are beat up.
Had this happen to me recently, cleaned up all the connections, problem went away.
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kreemoweet
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

Speculating that the volt indicator is powered by the ignition switch X terminal, this would be normal, expected behavior.
The X-powered circuit gets disconnected while starting.
Also, the start circuit has a "non-repeat" feature which requires turning the ignition switch
to OFF before using the starter again.
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bsairhead
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

PorschefanRoel wrote:
Thank you all for the responses, the battery itself isn't very old yet, so I'm hoping none of the cells died yet. I placed it in the spring of 2023.

The battery ground strap itself is corroded, so I will replace it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I will also check the transmission ground strap to see if it is corroded, and if so replace that one too.
Scrape that paint off the body and washer of the battery ground to body connection.
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timvw7476
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

No need for new parts/cables. At least not yet as others have mentioned. The battery can be at 99% & still you end up with the terminals too loose & electron flow is blocked to your biggest amp-draw item.
I've tried the red & green anti-corrosion washers (work pretty well). I've tried the electrician's anti-corrosion green slime (can't recall tradename). Anit-Ox?
The single best thing is the body ground strap bolt & nuts on terminals being tight to keep corrosion from setting up. I've run rather loose terminals & been rewarded with a clean up job every late winter/early spring season I did that. Nice n' tight seems to rule the day. If I had to guess I'd say 16-18 foot pounds on terminals with 12-13mm nuts.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

With the replacement style cable end that you have you may have a problem between the cable end and the post and between the wire and the cable end.

You need to protect any and all connection in the system from air, salt, and battery acid by smearing them with some form of grease, the manual calls for Vasoline, which will work fine except in the hotter parts of the country.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

I'd agree with others that you have bad cables/clamps and bad cable to body ground connections. For instance, the ground strap from your battery negative looks like it's bolted to the body over paint. Remove the strap and clean off the paint and buff the corrosion off both ends of that cable. Also, as said, you have the crappy bolt on battery cable clamp on your positive. This can be heavily corroded on the inside and look great on the outside. Either take that all apart and clean it or better get a new cable with a swagged clamp from your flaps.

There is also an important ground cable/strap located at the transmission nose that needs to be clean on both ends.

If that doesn't do it. Remove your starter and clean the faces of where it contacts the bell housing. There shouldn't be any paint on either the starter or the transmission because this is an electrical bond.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:18 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

The battery clamp and the battery post show signs of corrosion. Loosening the clamp, knocking it down the post on the battery would probably scrape off the corrosion.

I wouldnt worry about the surface corrosion in the middle of the ground strap, its the ends where the connection is made that have to be clean.

You can have a high resistance connection that blows when you try to start the bus, and reforms when the current drop providing voltage again to the voltmeter.

I once had a nightmare like this with a borrowed motor boat where the boatyard had forgotten to tighten the battery clamp and I had to row some distance in a dinghy to fetch a spanner..

Or the ignition switch has worn out and corroded making the accessory output fail. It should turn off when cranking, only the ignition and a few other circuits staynon while cranking.
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PorschefanRoel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies, haven't had a lot of time yet. But in the meantime i did clean the connection point of the ground cable to the bus and the ground cable to the battery. Also replaced the ring with a new one. Screw is also clean, except for the top green part.
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Did a quick look under the bus, but can't seem to find the ground cable of the transmission.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

It’s right at the nose. Look again
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

From the gallery

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

PorschefanRoel wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, haven't had a lot of time yet. But in the meantime i did clean the connection point of the ground cable to the bus and the ground cable to the battery. Also replaced the ring with a new one. Screw is also clean, except for the top green part.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Did a quick look under the bus, but can't seem to find the ground cable of the transmission.
How did you get the paint off the body so perfectly only behind the strap?
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PorschefanRoel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

bsairhead wrote:
How did you get the paint off the body so perfectly only behind the strap?


You probably have to ask the previous owner. The paint below the connector was already missing, but it was a bit rusty, so I've gone over it with some sandpaper, and went through the rust layer before I went to the paint around it Smile

You can see that the paint around it is a bit lighter now, that is the result of me sanding it down.

@aeromech, I will check it again, good to have a picture now where it should be located.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van Reply with quote

One thing you can do to test for a bad engine/trans ground, is to take a jumper cable and go direct from the battery straight to a clean part of the engine case. Then while you are at it, just take a wrench and make sure you can rotate the engine clockwise (check for a stuck starter or locked up engine). Then give it a shot. Even if that questionable chassis ground you have is marginal, the starter should function. If it does, then you know it's a ground issue to the engine/trans.

If all else fails, take the positive part of the jumper cables and run it to the starter.
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