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PorschefanRoel Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2024 Posts: 7
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:18 am Post subject: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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Hi all,
I'm having an issue with my bus, When I'm trying to start the bus it completely cuts off the power, turning the key back off and on brings back the power. I can easily see this by the voltage indicator on my dashboard.
I've made a video showing the issue:
Link
Some info about the van:
VW T2B
1976
1.7 Type 4 engine
Single Weber carburetor (32/36, with an electric choke)
As seen above, when I turn the key to start, the power is completely gone, turning the key back off and on again returns it, but I can't start the engine.
What have I done until now:
- I've checked the battery and it's completely full
- I've directly powered the starter motor, which starts without issues.
- Rotated the engine to see it isn't stuck.
After this, I've jumstarted the bus using my car, which i didn't think was the issue, as the battery was completely full. But I tried it anyway.
Which to my surprise started the van without any problems. So I turned the van back off and once again I've put the battery dripper back on, which told me the battery was completely charged.
After this I've started the van multiple times without any issues, so indeed the battery was full. Does someone have any idea what the starting issue can have been?
I've had this issue once before, a few months earlier, but back then I simply thought the battery was dead, as jumpstarting fixed it...
Hopefully some expertice here can help me a bit in the right direction |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2182 Location: seattle
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:38 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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corrosion on the posts./terminals Clean, re-tighten.
Kind of a seasonal thing if the posts are not snug & the bus gets parked for weeks & weeks. |
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PorschefanRoel Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2024 Posts: 7
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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Thanks for the reply,
is this still logical when I drove the van one week earlier? This was a trip of around 150KM, where the bus didn't have any starting issues?
Before that I must agree that the van didn't move a lot. |
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crownline Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 589 Location: Northwoods of WI
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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Transmission ground strap corrosion where it connects. Also check battery ground where it connects to body. Clean grounds make a big difference. _________________ 1972 Bus 1700 cc Single Carb. But not a progressive.
Barelymuvin
Wish I still had the ones I got rid of.
"It"s got some dings and dents and neither of us is going to SEMA."(Update, I went to SEMA in 2019 but the Bus stayed home)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-8446.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50259
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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Problems can crop up suddenly, that's 100 percent normal. As others have said, you have bad connections somewhere in the high amperage electrical system, and most likely it's at the battery posts. The contact surfaces need to be cleaned to shiny metal as a corroded surface will not conduct electricity. I always put some vasoline on the posts and inside the cable end before assembling then and smear a bit more over to outside once things are assembled to lessen future corrosion. Also the battery cable and ground straps themselves could be bad as they are far from new at this point. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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All of the above....and if it has caps on the cells...check the electrolyte level on each one. Most of all, it could very well be a cracked plate in one cell or a cell dying from calcium riding inside....so basically a dead cell.
Dead cell shows full voltage and will not trip the charger but will fail a load test. Ray |
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PorschefanRoel Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2024 Posts: 7
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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Thank you all for the responses, the battery itself isn't very old yet, so I'm hoping none of the cells died yet. I placed it in the spring of 2023.
The battery ground strap itself is corroded, so I will replace it.
I will also check the transmission ground strap to see if it is corroded, and if so replace that one too. |
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Slip356 Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2006 Posts: 392
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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You don’t have to replace them, just clean them all nice unless they are beat up.
Had this happen to me recently, cleaned up all the connections, problem went away. |
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kreemoweet Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008 Posts: 3889 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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Speculating that the volt indicator is powered by the ignition switch X terminal, this would be normal, expected behavior.
The X-powered circuit gets disconnected while starting.
Also, the start circuit has a "non-repeat" feature which requires turning the ignition switch
to OFF before using the starter again. _________________ '67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 3474 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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PorschefanRoel wrote: |
Thank you all for the responses, the battery itself isn't very old yet, so I'm hoping none of the cells died yet. I placed it in the spring of 2023.
The battery ground strap itself is corroded, so I will replace it.
I will also check the transmission ground strap to see if it is corroded, and if so replace that one too. |
Scrape that paint off the body and washer of the battery ground to body connection. |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2182 Location: seattle
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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No need for new parts/cables. At least not yet as others have mentioned. The battery can be at 99% & still you end up with the terminals too loose & electron flow is blocked to your biggest amp-draw item.
I've tried the red & green anti-corrosion washers (work pretty well). I've tried the electrician's anti-corrosion green slime (can't recall tradename). Anit-Ox?
The single best thing is the body ground strap bolt & nuts on terminals being tight to keep corrosion from setting up. I've run rather loose terminals & been rewarded with a clean up job every late winter/early spring season I did that. Nice n' tight seems to rule the day. If I had to guess I'd say 16-18 foot pounds on terminals with 12-13mm nuts. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50259
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Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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With the replacement style cable end that you have you may have a problem between the cable end and the post and between the wire and the cable end.
You need to protect any and all connection in the system from air, salt, and battery acid by smearing them with some form of grease, the manual calls for Vasoline, which will work fine except in the hotter parts of the country. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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I'd agree with others that you have bad cables/clamps and bad cable to body ground connections. For instance, the ground strap from your battery negative looks like it's bolted to the body over paint. Remove the strap and clean off the paint and buff the corrosion off both ends of that cable. Also, as said, you have the crappy bolt on battery cable clamp on your positive. This can be heavily corroded on the inside and look great on the outside. Either take that all apart and clean it or better get a new cable with a swagged clamp from your flaps.
There is also an important ground cable/strap located at the transmission nose that needs to be clean on both ends.
If that doesn't do it. Remove your starter and clean the faces of where it contacts the bell housing. There shouldn't be any paint on either the starter or the transmission because this is an electrical bond. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2714 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:18 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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The battery clamp and the battery post show signs of corrosion. Loosening the clamp, knocking it down the post on the battery would probably scrape off the corrosion.
I wouldnt worry about the surface corrosion in the middle of the ground strap, its the ends where the connection is made that have to be clean.
You can have a high resistance connection that blows when you try to start the bus, and reforms when the current drop providing voltage again to the voltmeter.
I once had a nightmare like this with a borrowed motor boat where the boatyard had forgotten to tighten the battery clamp and I had to row some distance in a dinghy to fetch a spanner..
Or the ignition switch has worn out and corroded making the accessory output fail. It should turn off when cranking, only the ignition and a few other circuits staynon while cranking. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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PorschefanRoel Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2024 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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Thanks for all the replies, haven't had a lot of time yet. But in the meantime i did clean the connection point of the ground cable to the bus and the ground cable to the battery. Also replaced the ring with a new one. Screw is also clean, except for the top green part.
Did a quick look under the bus, but can't seem to find the ground cable of the transmission. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 3:44 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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It’s right at the nose. Look again _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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From the gallery
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 3474 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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PorschefanRoel wrote: |
Thanks for all the replies, haven't had a lot of time yet. But in the meantime i did clean the connection point of the ground cable to the bus and the ground cable to the battery. Also replaced the ring with a new one. Screw is also clean, except for the top green part.
Did a quick look under the bus, but can't seem to find the ground cable of the transmission. |
How did you get the paint off the body so perfectly only behind the strap? |
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PorschefanRoel Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2024 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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bsairhead wrote: |
How did you get the paint off the body so perfectly only behind the strap? |
You probably have to ask the previous owner. The paint below the connector was already missing, but it was a bit rusty, so I've gone over it with some sandpaper, and went through the rust layer before I went to the paint around it
You can see that the paint around it is a bit lighter now, that is the result of me sanding it down.
@aeromech, I will check it again, good to have a picture now where it should be located. |
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jjvincent Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016 Posts: 1253 Location: Bethlehem, PA
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Voltage power shuts down on trying to start the van |
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One thing you can do to test for a bad engine/trans ground, is to take a jumper cable and go direct from the battery straight to a clean part of the engine case. Then while you are at it, just take a wrench and make sure you can rotate the engine clockwise (check for a stuck starter or locked up engine). Then give it a shot. Even if that questionable chassis ground you have is marginal, the starter should function. If it does, then you know it's a ground issue to the engine/trans.
If all else fails, take the positive part of the jumper cables and run it to the starter. |
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