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riceye Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 1661 Location: Caledonia, WI
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
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tencentlife wrote:
I've retensioned mine while under normal load and it made no difference in the squeaking. Although if I was putting in new ones, I would be sure to tension them initially with the load on the wheels.
Chris, you're right. I can see from the construction that this wouldn't make any difference to the bushings. No wonder it didn't help the squeaking!
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I stand corrected. Thanks for the explanation. These bushings, and an alignment are on my 2008 to-do list. _________________ '87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads
There's gonna be some changes made.
“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee
"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig |
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Volksaholic Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2005 Posts: 1771 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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It seems odd to me that the replacement would fail after such a short time in service; maybe it is an inferior part. How many years/miles should one expect these to last? My '88 has about 125K miles and I haven't noticed any squeaking or rattling from the front end. I also don't recall seeing any service records indicating these have been replaced.
This is probably a lame idea or someone would have already suggested it, but what about fitting a Zerk fitting to one of these stock bushings? Since the nylon portion is keyed to the outer sleeve you should be able to drill just through the outer sleeve and nylon bushing while trying not to hack up the rubber. The hole in the nylon would remain aligned with the hole in the outer sleeve. The sleeve could be tapped for the Zerk fitting, the bushing installed (it looks like it would have to be installed w/o the Zerk), and the Zerk fitting screwed in.
I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out. Like I said, I'm not noticing any noise from mine but it sounds like it's only a matter of time. _________________ 1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251 |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10075 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: |
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There would have to be enough depth in total between the outer sleeve and the inner rubber bushing, taking the nylon sleeve into account, for the zirc threads to hold. Gonna be close, but if it worked it would be an excellent fix, and you could toss the bag 'o' rats into the river. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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wavanagon Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 400 Location: Everett, WA
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Chris, it sounds like ze germans would agree w/ you:
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Technical Information
Group: 40
Number: 88-01
Date: May 31, 1988
Subject: Upper control arm bushings, checking
Model(s): Vanagon, all model years
An insufficient seal at the outer ends of the upper control arm bushings
can cause premature wear to the bushings. Visually inspect the bushings
as follows to determine if replacement is necessary.
NOTE
When checking the bushings, both front wheels must be on the ground.
* Bolt head or nut/washer must be postioned in center of bonded rubber
bushing.
* If bolt head or nut/washer comes in contact with supporting ring
(arrow), wear limit has been reached and bushing must be replaced.
< picture shows the hex-head bolt of the upper control arm, which
passes through the bushings. the 'arrow' seems to be pointing to the
'eccentric washer' which is shown in the Bentley book on page 40.2. >
this same information is also shown on page 40.5a of the July 15, 1991
edition of the Bentley Vanagon Manual. |
I just discovered the techinical bulletins link that riceye posted in the sticky. Lots of good stuff, and just happened upon that one! fwiw....
And, if you haven't seen the sticky yet, here's the link:
http://www.vanagonparts.com/tech_bulletins.html#015 _________________ 1988 Vanagon GL - For Sale
1987 Westfalia
2008 Audi A4 2.0T
http://wavanagon.googlepages.com
Dirty from working on your Vanagon? Buy soap from my wife!
http://www.teatreesoap.com |
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Wellington Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004 Posts: 1884 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Wellington wrote: |
Wellington, I just checked my Bentley and it makes no reference to the thickness of the eccentric washers at all. It's an older version so maybe the newer version are different?
I'm going to check my Bently again, I'll post the exact quote, I remember this cause when I replaced my upper bushings I remember there being a bit of a space, hence I should have put the spacers, but figured that when I tightened the bolt the play went away. Mine is the latest edition so maybe this is an update to address this.
Thinking about it, when you tighten the bolt and "squeeze" the two bushings together, you are forcing the bushings to align. |
Well I was partially right, it seems it applies to only Syncros, Bently page 40.18A |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5390 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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I received my set of Meyle bushings and my set of Febi bushings.
They are very different in their construction. The Febi bushings are much more heavy duty. They weigh almost twice what the Meyle bushings weigh. The Febi bushings do not have the plastic liner like the Meyle's do. Instead, the Febi's have the rubber bonded to the steel outer sleeve with a greased heavy duty inner sleeve that pivots in the rubber. The way the rubber is designed, it appears as though it forms it's own seal to help keep the grease in and the moisture/dirt out. I am definately going to use the Febi's as it appears to me as though they are constructed to a much higher quality over the Meyle's.
Taking a look at the photos, you can clearly see that the Febi outer sleeve is much thicker than the Meyle's. The same is true of the inner sleeve. You can also see the rubber forms a grease seal between the itself and the inner sleeve compared the the Meyle brand which leaves the grease 100% exposed to the elements.
_________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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reiney Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2006 Posts: 120 Location: Santa Fe, NM
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Mine squeaks like an old bed too; but not this week!? After an inch or two of wet snow and driving around in the slush for four days, the squeaks are gone!
I expect they'll be back after it warms up. Are the inner & outer sleeves now frozen together? |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10075 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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So if the rubber is bonded to both outer shell and inner bush, where does the grease reside? Seems like a conventional bushing to me, with the rubber cast in place? That's what I always assumed was the construction. Is there a gap somewhere within where grease could stay? _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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kayakwesty Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2007 Posts: 687 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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not to highjack a thread but thank you for posting all of this and sharing, my bushings are raising hell, and I'm using a teflon spray and PB Blaster for the moment
Let me know how the install goes...the FEBI brand does look more HD.
Once again thank you for posting this! _________________ 1984 Westy 2.0 Jetta ABA Motor/1.8 head converted to auto tranny, with 180,000 on body, 55K on engine and transmission
B.5.5 Passat Wagen with 30v V6-67000 Miles
DAS AUTO
CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES!
A post without pictures is useless
http://www.kayakwesty.com
http://www.waldensridgewhitewater.com/ |
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Volksaholic Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2005 Posts: 1771 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yes... thanks for the follow-up. I don't have an immediate need to replace these bushings in my Wolfsburg but it's nice to know for future reference what brand I should order. It didn't make sense to me that the original equipment would hold up for 10s of Ks of miles and your replacement would fail within a couple of years. I guess we now know why... unless the OE parts are built like the Meyles. _________________ 1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251 |
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Wellington Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004 Posts: 1884 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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So how can we be sure to get Febi brand? Where did you order them from? |
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RCB Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005 Posts: 4143 Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Mine squeek also.......its only been a few monthe since I had them replaced, the shop applied some lubricant to them and they were quiet for awhile, now they squeek again.
I dont know what brand was installed, but I would be interested where the Febis came from. |
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Petervw Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2005 Posts: 1020 Location: Sarnia Ont. Canada
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Wellington wrote: |
So how can we be sure to get Febi brand? Where did you order them from? |
..They can be ordered from Rockauto.com...is anyone willing to order up, the even more expensive ones from "rock" to see if there is even more (better) of a difference between these companies..just maybe, it might be true, that you get what you pay for and end up with something even better then the Febi's |
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hiram6 Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006 Posts: 1880 Location: Beautiful South
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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What about the ones from Van-Cafe? The reason I ask is that I just received two new upper ball joints from them. Febi brand!! _________________ 1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning. |
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Petervw Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2005 Posts: 1020 Location: Sarnia Ont. Canada
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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hiram6 wrote: |
What about the ones from Van-Cafe? The reason I ask is that I just received two new upper ball joints from them. Febi brand!! |
...makes you wonder why they don't carry the febi brand..from van cafes picture it looks like the type that will allow the grease to squeeze out and let water/dirt in |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5390 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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tencentlife wrote: |
So if the rubber is bonded to both outer shell and inner bush, where does the grease reside? Seems like a conventional bushing to me, with the rubber cast in place? That's what I always assumed was the construction. Is there a gap somewhere within where grease could stay? |
The rubber is only bonded to the outer sleeve. The inner is free to pivot. Without cutting one apart, I am assuming that the Febi rubber has some type design feature that helps keep the grease in place. I'm imagining something similar to the waffle pattern on the Meyle's. When pull back on the rubber lip of the Febi's, it is smooth like a seal would be. I'm really tempted to cut one of these Febi's apart just to take a look. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5390 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Petervw wrote: |
Wellington wrote: |
So how can we be sure to get Febi brand? Where did you order them from? |
..They can be ordered from Rockauto.com...is anyone willing to order up, the even more expensive ones from "rock" to see if there is even more (better) of a difference between these companies..just maybe, it might be true, that you get what you pay for and end up with something even better then the Febi's |
Yes, Rockauto.com is where the Febi's came from.
Judging by the pictures of the AC Delco brand and the Spicer brand (although we can only see the backside of the Spicer), they look identical to the Meyle's. I'm a little hesitant to spend $86.00, or even $65.00, on an item that looks the same as what I just pulled out. That's not to say that they are not somehow better, but I just don't know.
VanCafe sells Meyle's. That is where my other new set came from (before I ordered the Febi's). When I inquired at VanCafe about the Meyle brand, if they have had any problems with them and if they offer anything besides the Meyle brand, they said that Meyle's are all they can get and that they don't have any trouble with them. My previous two sets were also purchaced from VanCafe and were also Meyle's. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Petervw Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2005 Posts: 1020 Location: Sarnia Ont. Canada
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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loogy wrote: |
Petervw wrote: |
Wellington wrote: |
So how can we be sure to get Febi brand? Where did you order them from? |
..They can be ordered from Rockauto.com...is anyone willing to order up, the even more expensive ones from "rock" to see if there is even more (better) of a difference between these companies..just maybe, it might be true, that you get what you pay for and end up with something even better then the Febi's |
Yes, Rockauto.com is where the Febi's came from.
Judging by the pictures of the AC Delco brand and the Spicer brand (although we can only see the backside of the Spicer), they look identical to the Meyle's. I'm a little hesitant to spend $86.00, or even $65.00, on an item that looks the same as what I just pulled out. That's not to say that they are not somehow better, but I just don't know.
VanCafe sells Meyle's. That is where my other new set came from (before I ordered the Febi's). When I inquired at VanCafe about the Meyle brand, if they have had any problems with them and if they offer anything besides the Meyle brand, they said that Meyle's are all they can get and that they don't have any trouble with them. My previous two sets were also purchaced from VanCafe and were also Meyle's. |
I find it interesting that VanCafe can not get the Febi brand, which might support, although, I don't know for sure...being recently told that the Febi brand bushings are no longer being produced and whoever has them, is selling some very old stock ( sounds very similar to Type2 parts ) ...another strange point I wanted to make, is that, after seeing your comparison pictures and enlargeing them 600%, the Febi seems to be identical to the "Un-named" brand that "importecparts.com" is selling for under $10, but without the Febi logo on it...now where the logo was or should be, it looks like someone removed the name and left a "smudged" mark instead... |
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kayakwesty Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2007 Posts: 687 Location: East Tennessee
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: |
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I take it you need 4 each for one Vanagon? _________________ 1984 Westy 2.0 Jetta ABA Motor/1.8 head converted to auto tranny, with 180,000 on body, 55K on engine and transmission
B.5.5 Passat Wagen with 30v V6-67000 Miles
DAS AUTO
CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES!
A post without pictures is useless
http://www.kayakwesty.com
http://www.waldensridgewhitewater.com/ |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Petervw wrote: |
the Febi seems to be identical to the "Un-named" brand that "importecparts.com" is selling for under $10, but without the Febi logo on it...now where the logo was or should be, it looks like someone removed the name and left a "smudged" mark instead... |
Quick, buy one and report back. The pics at importedcarparts have been wrong before. At Autohausaz.com they say that it's Meyle, but picture the Febi style. If Importedcarparts has the right ones, then that's a great deal.
Andrew |
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