Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures)
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 14, 15, 16  Next
Jump to:
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
riceye
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1554
Location: Caledonia, WI
riceye is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
tencentlife wrote:
I've retensioned mine while under normal load and it made no difference in the squeaking. Although if I was putting in new ones, I would be sure to tension them initially with the load on the wheels.


Chris, you're right. I can see from the construction that this wouldn't make any difference to the bushings. No wonder it didn't help the squeaking!


I stand corrected. Thanks for the explanation. These bushings, and an alignment are on my 2008 to-do list.
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't. - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Volksaholic
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Volksaholic is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems odd to me that the replacement would fail after such a short time in service; maybe it is an inferior part. How many years/miles should one expect these to last? My '88 has about 125K miles and I haven't noticed any squeaking or rattling from the front end. I also don't recall seeing any service records indicating these have been replaced.

This is probably a lame idea or someone would have already suggested it, but what about fitting a Zerk fitting to one of these stock bushings? Since the nylon portion is keyed to the outer sleeve you should be able to drill just through the outer sleeve and nylon bushing while trying not to hack up the rubber. The hole in the nylon would remain aligned with the hole in the outer sleeve. The sleeve could be tapped for the Zerk fitting, the bushing installed (it looks like it would have to be installed w/o the Zerk), and the Zerk fitting screwed in.

I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out. Like I said, I'm not noticing any noise from mine but it sounds like it's only a matter of time.
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9996
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There would have to be enough depth in total between the outer sleeve and the inner rubber bushing, taking the nylon sleeve into account, for the zirc threads to hold. Gonna be close, but if it worked it would be an excellent fix, and you could toss the bag 'o' rats into the river.
_________________
See innovative Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Hmmm, provincial much?:
Quote:
"I wouldn't go much on whats written on the samba, they love a "theory" and rarely ask any Europeans what is actually correct."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wavanagon
Samba Member


Joined: September 17, 2007
Posts: 400
Location: Everett, WA
wavanagon is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris, it sounds like ze germans would agree w/ you:

Quote:
Technical Information
Group: 40
Number: 88-01
Date: May 31, 1988
Subject: Upper control arm bushings, checking
Model(s): Vanagon, all model years

An insufficient seal at the outer ends of the upper control arm bushings
can cause premature wear to the bushings. Visually inspect the bushings
as follows to determine if replacement is necessary.

NOTE
When checking the bushings, both front wheels must be on the ground.

* Bolt head or nut/washer must be postioned in center of bonded rubber
bushing.
* If bolt head or nut/washer comes in contact with supporting ring
(arrow), wear limit has been reached and bushing must be replaced.

< picture shows the hex-head bolt of the upper control arm, which
passes through the bushings. the 'arrow' seems to be pointing to the
'eccentric washer' which is shown in the Bentley book on page 40.2. >

this same information is also shown on page 40.5a of the July 15, 1991
edition of the Bentley Vanagon Manual.


I just discovered the techinical bulletins link that riceye posted in the sticky. Lots of good stuff, and just happened upon that one! fwiw....

And, if you haven't seen the sticky yet, here's the link:

http://www.vanagonparts.com/tech_bulletins.html#015
_________________
1988 Vanagon GL - For Sale
1987 Westfalia
2008 Audi A4 2.0T
http://wavanagon.googlepages.com

Dirty from working on your Vanagon? Buy soap from my wife!
http://www.teatreesoap.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Wellington
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1699
Location: Montreal
Wellington is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wellington wrote:
Wellington, I just checked my Bentley and it makes no reference to the thickness of the eccentric washers at all. It's an older version so maybe the newer version are different?

I'm going to check my Bently again, I'll post the exact quote, I remember this cause when I replaced my upper bushings I remember there being a bit of a space, hence I should have put the spacers, but figured that when I tightened the bolt the play went away. Mine is the latest edition so maybe this is an update to address this.
Thinking about it, when you tighten the bolt and "squeeze" the two bushings together, you are forcing the bushings to align.


Well I was partially right, it seems it applies to only Syncros, Bently page 40.18A
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Christopher Schimke
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: PNW
Christopher Schimke is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I received my set of Meyle bushings and my set of Febi bushings.
They are very different in their construction. The Febi bushings are much more heavy duty. They weigh almost twice what the Meyle bushings weigh. The Febi bushings do not have the plastic liner like the Meyle's do. Instead, the Febi's have the rubber bonded to the steel outer sleeve with a greased heavy duty inner sleeve that pivots in the rubber. The way the rubber is designed, it appears as though it forms it's own seal to help keep the grease in and the moisture/dirt out. I am definately going to use the Febi's as it appears to me as though they are constructed to a much higher quality over the Meyle's.

Taking a look at the photos, you can clearly see that the Febi outer sleeve is much thicker than the Meyle's. The same is true of the inner sleeve. You can also see the rubber forms a grease seal between the itself and the inner sleeve compared the the Meyle brand which leaves the grease 100% exposed to the elements.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Christopher

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
reiney
Samba Member


Joined: November 02, 2006
Posts: 120
Location: Santa Fe, NM
reiney is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine squeaks like an old bed too; but not this week!? After an inch or two of wet snow and driving around in the slush for four days, the squeaks are gone!
I expect they'll be back after it warms up. Are the inner & outer sleeves now frozen together?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9996
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if the rubber is bonded to both outer shell and inner bush, where does the grease reside? Seems like a conventional bushing to me, with the rubber cast in place? That's what I always assumed was the construction. Is there a gap somewhere within where grease could stay?
_________________
See innovative Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Hmmm, provincial much?:
Quote:
"I wouldn't go much on whats written on the samba, they love a "theory" and rarely ask any Europeans what is actually correct."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kayakwesty
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 687
Location: East Tennessee
kayakwesty is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not to highjack a thread but thank you for posting all of this and sharing, my bushings are raising hell, and I'm using a teflon spray and PB Blaster for the moment

Let me know how the install goes...the FEBI brand does look more HD.

Once again thank you for posting this!
_________________
1984 Westy 2.0 Jetta ABA Motor/1.8 head converted to auto tranny, with 180,000 on body, 55K on engine and transmission

B.5.5 Passat Wagen with 30v V6-67000 Miles

DAS AUTO

CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES!

A post without pictures is useless

http://www.kayakwesty.com

http://www.waldensridgewhitewater.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Volksaholic
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Volksaholic is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes... thanks for the follow-up. I don't have an immediate need to replace these bushings in my Wolfsburg but it's nice to know for future reference what brand I should order. It didn't make sense to me that the original equipment would hold up for 10s of Ks of miles and your replacement would fail within a couple of years. I guess we now know why... unless the OE parts are built like the Meyles.
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wellington
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1699
Location: Montreal
Wellington is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how can we be sure to get Febi brand? Where did you order them from?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
RCB
Samba Member


Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 4143
Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
RCB is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine squeek also.......its only been a few monthe since I had them replaced, the shop applied some lubricant to them and they were quiet for awhile, now they squeek again.
I dont know what brand was installed, but I would be interested where the Febis came from.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
Petervw
Samba Member


Joined: July 04, 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Sarnia Ont. Canada
Petervw is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wellington wrote:
So how can we be sure to get Febi brand? Where did you order them from?
..They can be ordered from Rockauto.com...is anyone willing to order up, the even more expensive ones from "rock" to see if there is even more (better) of a difference between these companies..just maybe, it might be true, that you get what you pay for and end up with something even better then the Febi's
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hiram6
Samba Member


Joined: September 29, 2006
Posts: 1876
Location: Beautiful South
hiram6 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the ones from Van-Cafe? The reason I ask is that I just received two new upper ball joints from them. Febi brand!!
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Petervw
Samba Member


Joined: July 04, 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Sarnia Ont. Canada
Petervw is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiram6 wrote:
What about the ones from Van-Cafe? The reason I ask is that I just received two new upper ball joints from them. Febi brand!!
...makes you wonder why they don't carry the febi brand..from van cafes picture it looks like the type that will allow the grease to squeeze out and let water/dirt in
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Christopher Schimke
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: PNW
Christopher Schimke is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
So if the rubber is bonded to both outer shell and inner bush, where does the grease reside? Seems like a conventional bushing to me, with the rubber cast in place? That's what I always assumed was the construction. Is there a gap somewhere within where grease could stay?


The rubber is only bonded to the outer sleeve. The inner is free to pivot. Without cutting one apart, I am assuming that the Febi rubber has some type design feature that helps keep the grease in place. I'm imagining something similar to the waffle pattern on the Meyle's. When pull back on the rubber lip of the Febi's, it is smooth like a seal would be. I'm really tempted to cut one of these Febi's apart just to take a look.
_________________
Christopher

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Christopher Schimke
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5174
Location: PNW
Christopher Schimke is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Petervw wrote:
Wellington wrote:
So how can we be sure to get Febi brand? Where did you order them from?
..They can be ordered from Rockauto.com...is anyone willing to order up, the even more expensive ones from "rock" to see if there is even more (better) of a difference between these companies..just maybe, it might be true, that you get what you pay for and end up with something even better then the Febi's


Yes, Rockauto.com is where the Febi's came from.

Judging by the pictures of the AC Delco brand and the Spicer brand (although we can only see the backside of the Spicer), they look identical to the Meyle's. I'm a little hesitant to spend $86.00, or even $65.00, on an item that looks the same as what I just pulled out. That's not to say that they are not somehow better, but I just don't know.

VanCafe sells Meyle's. That is where my other new set came from (before I ordered the Febi's). When I inquired at VanCafe about the Meyle brand, if they have had any problems with them and if they offer anything besides the Meyle brand, they said that Meyle's are all they can get and that they don't have any trouble with them. My previous two sets were also purchaced from VanCafe and were also Meyle's.
_________________
Christopher

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Petervw
Samba Member


Joined: July 04, 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: Sarnia Ont. Canada
Petervw is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

loogy wrote:
Petervw wrote:
Wellington wrote:
So how can we be sure to get Febi brand? Where did you order them from?
..They can be ordered from Rockauto.com...is anyone willing to order up, the even more expensive ones from "rock" to see if there is even more (better) of a difference between these companies..just maybe, it might be true, that you get what you pay for and end up with something even better then the Febi's


Yes, Rockauto.com is where the Febi's came from.

Judging by the pictures of the AC Delco brand and the Spicer brand (although we can only see the backside of the Spicer), they look identical to the Meyle's. I'm a little hesitant to spend $86.00, or even $65.00, on an item that looks the same as what I just pulled out. That's not to say that they are not somehow better, but I just don't know.

VanCafe sells Meyle's. That is where my other new set came from (before I ordered the Febi's). When I inquired at VanCafe about the Meyle brand, if they have had any problems with them and if they offer anything besides the Meyle brand, they said that Meyle's are all they can get and that they don't have any trouble with them. My previous two sets were also purchaced from VanCafe and were also Meyle's.
I find it interesting that VanCafe can not get the Febi brand, which might support, although, I don't know for sure...being recently told that the Febi brand bushings are no longer being produced and whoever has them, is selling some very old stock ( sounds very similar to Type2 parts ) ...another strange point I wanted to make, is that, after seeing your comparison pictures and enlargeing them 600%, the Febi seems to be identical to the "Un-named" brand that "importecparts.com" is selling for under $10, but without the Febi logo on it...now where the logo was or should be, it looks like someone removed the name and left a "smudged" mark instead...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kayakwesty
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 687
Location: East Tennessee
kayakwesty is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it you need 4 each for one Vanagon?
_________________
1984 Westy 2.0 Jetta ABA Motor/1.8 head converted to auto tranny, with 180,000 on body, 55K on engine and transmission

B.5.5 Passat Wagen with 30v V6-67000 Miles

DAS AUTO

CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES!

A post without pictures is useless

http://www.kayakwesty.com

http://www.waldensridgewhitewater.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 8866
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Petervw wrote:
the Febi seems to be identical to the "Un-named" brand that "importecparts.com" is selling for under $10, but without the Febi logo on it...now where the logo was or should be, it looks like someone removed the name and left a "smudged" mark instead...


Quick, buy one and report back. The pics at importedcarparts have been wrong before. At Autohausaz.com they say that it's Meyle, but picture the Febi style. Confused If Importedcarparts has the right ones, then that's a great deal.

Andrew
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 14, 15, 16  Next
Jump to:
Page 2 of 16

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB