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Upper control arm bushing failure (pictures)
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Franklinstower wrote:


I bought the unamed brand for $10.00 bucks each. This is what they look like:


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The package says FEQ (First Equipment Quality), made in CHINA. I will install them and report back.

Paul


Saw these on cali import website. They are similarly inexpensive as above pic.

Anyone used these with success?

edit: product link:

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D251%2D407%2D077

Neil.


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Brickwerks
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They look like Topran/Febi items.

I took out some Topran items today, all the rubber had "squished" out, they didn't look too old but they had failed.

the Topran/Febi ones don't have the nylon sleeve like the meyle or Lemforder ones do.
I'm not sure how they work, if the rubber is bonded to the metal parts or not, if you pull a Lemforder one in pieces you'll see that the bush is designed to twist, the nylon appears to be in there as a kinda lubricant.

The ones we have the most problems with here are ones from a company called GSF, they source a lot of parts in China.
GSF have their own brand of parts called "Vibring", they are truly terrible.
Most Vibring parts have the VW part number on them suffixed with "7RL". I would be interested to hear of any other parts like this, to see if the "7RL" part is unique to GSF or if they truly are made solely for GSF.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brickwerks wrote:
They look like Topran/Febi items.

I took out some Topran items today, all the rubber had "squished" out, they didn't look too old but they had failed.

the Topran/Febi ones don't have the nylon sleeve like the meyle or Lemforder ones do.
I'm not sure how they work, if the rubber is bonded to the metal parts or not, if you pull a Lemforder one in pieces you'll see that the bush is designed to twist, the nylon appears to be in there as a kinda lubricant.

The ones we have the most problems with here are ones from a company called GSF, they source a lot of parts in China.
GSF have their own brand of parts called "Vibring", they are truly terrible.
Most Vibring parts have the VW part number on them suffixed with "7RL". I would be interested to hear of any other parts like this, to see if the "7RL" part is unique to GSF or if they truly are made solely for GSF.


Great info, much appreciated!

Meyle were installed on D-side. The fact that they didn't operate the same as P-side (Febi) makes sense now; inner metal sleeve didn't turn finger inserted. (in spite of one Febi being quite worn, they both turned finger inserted) They are likely the bonded type as you say.

Looks like this one was installed with a ham hand. (or is that shape correct?) They seemed "ok" but figured I'd do both sides at same time.

Neil.

Meyle

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Worn Febi

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Ironcially, IIRC, this was the only one that was tack welded.



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:44 pm    Post subject: UCAB press idea Reply with quote

$3 UCAB Press:

Adding on to this epic UCAB thread seems like the place to put this. I tackled the job today, a Saturday. Searched in vain this am for a machine shop open on a Saturday. Resigned myself to rigging something with threaded rod, etc. But first I stopped in at the local FLAPS, an O-Reilly, wishbone in hand. Evaluated various loaner tools, found a ball joint/u-joint press that might work, but what was needed was a very thin walled cylinder to fit around the bushing and still clear a folded over part of the control arm. I remembered a samba thread where someone rigged something using an exhaust part and mentioned this. The guy working was super helpful, we grabbed a fitting off the shelf, chucked it all together and pressed one bushing mostly out. I used a big flat washer I had on hand to press the new bushing in.

Since the loan is free (refundable deposit) the whole deal cost about $3.
The new bushing is super tight in the arm, I am very comfortable skipping the tack weld.

The loaner kit
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Pressing out
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Pressing in with addition of flat washer
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teej
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have an update 9 months after the above post , the squeak is returning, especially passenger side. Winter conditions did the trick nicely.

What is the best lube to spray in there? I am trying to avoid washing out any more of the original grease. Would spray white lithium be good? I recall the lube in the bushings (Meyle) was whitish.

More purple bushings may be the real fix. I realize the current bushings are working fine and the squeak is only an annoyance, but after experiencing what quiet can be it is hard to go back.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sucks Confused

I usually stay some silicone in there,lasts long Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, get a set of Burley's UCA's and y'all never have to deal w/ this mess again!

I put in a set and haven't looked back! I enjoy the completely silent suspension travel every time I got over a speed bump!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:

I just rebuilt my Syncro front end, and this is my new experiment with sealing, using black silicone:

Knife it on into a cone shape, let cure:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then slice it away from the inner bush so it can swivel independently:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Won't have this rig on the road for quite awhile, so I'll have to wait to see how this performs.


Since this is back on top, I might as well give a report on the medium-term use with this treatment. Syncro's been my daily since Oct. 2010, over 20k miles to date with plenty of off-road use. The RTV "seals" I made are intact, not a peep out of this front end.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow...20k miles and still intact.
I'm impressed, great idea.

I currently only have one Syncro with stock arms or bushings at the moment.
Next time it is up on the hoist, I will R&R with stock bushings and give this a try.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the RTV is fairly durable and flexible stuff, once it's cured. But then again, maybe I just got lucky this once!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's wicked badass! How long did it take to cure before you put them into service?
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember your orginal post on this.
You were on to something than and it has shown to be worthy of further experimentation.
Thank you for the update.

I am also glad to hear you are daily driving your Syncro Wink

BTW, I received your mailing and have bookmarked the site.
The decals are sweet Exclamation

TY
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
That's wicked badass! How long did it take to cure before you put them into service?


Just overnight. It was common black Permatex RTV.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good info, thanks 10c. Now we need some more folks to try this step when they do their bushings to get a bigger data set. Wish I had done it . . .

So in the interim, any advice on most compatible spray lube with the original grease? I have several types on hand. I'm thinking white lithium spray but am checking here due to the spec that it is primarily for metal on metal. Not that I expect it to do very much.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran this concept by my MB cohorts, and they suggested using this as a basis for the bushing build.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we were talking about the RTV mod I did, I took a closer look at them today. All are totally intact, plenty dusty on the outside but no traces of lube escaping (it would stain the dust and show itself up).

In all the bushings Christopher opened up early in this thread, I saw the construction differences as not hugely significant, but the fault they all had in common was the lack of anything on the nose end to retain the little bit of lube inside. Well that's my theory anyway, and so far so good.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I ran this concept by my MB cohorts, and they suggested using this as a basis for the bushing build.


Well Devcon makes some awesome products, their metal epoxy is the shizzle, like JB Weld on steroids. The key thing here though, whatever material is used, is separating the rubber cover you make from the inner bush so it can move inside the lip of the rubber. I tried some others with that rubber tool handle dip coating, which is pretty tough. I left it bonded to the inner bush, thinking it would flex within that small degree of twist, but it tore apart in between.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody just given up on these and put the T3Technique / UK ones in?

I have a another new set of Febi German ones again and a new set of these keen expensive blue poly ones.

Either I mod with zerk fittings this new set or use the blue ones.

Price once all ready to install is very close to the same for both.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I ran this concept by my MB cohorts, and they suggested using this as a basis for the bushing build.


Well Devcon makes some awesome products, their metal epoxy is the shizzle, like JB Weld on steroids. The key thing here though, whatever material is used, is separating the rubber cover you make from the inner bush so it can move inside the lip of the rubber. I tried some others with that rubber tool handle dip coating, which is pretty tough. I left it bonded to the inner bush, thinking it would flex within that small degree of twist, but it tore apart in between.


Thanks for the tip! Polyurethane caulk would be perfect for that application. Its the material that bonds glass to high-rise buildings - very tough and retains its flexibility.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Just spent the day reading through this thread and there seems to be no answer. Can we find a replacement bushing with similar dimensions that is rubber bonded to the inner and outer shell? This setup works great on almost all cars produce from the beginning of time until they started filling them with liquid in the last 15-20 years.

This was my favorite quote so far:

tencentlife wrote:


Please do not misconstrue what the squeaking means, it only riles up the uninitiated. Apparently you haven't read this whole thread (not that anyone could blame you there....). Noise is not a sign of failure, it's not even remotely related. Noise is noise, it's a very unfortunate aspect of the design of these bushings, and this entire thread is about how big it sucks ass that annoying squeakiness almost universally coincides with the presence of these bushings in their assigned locations in this vehicle (a fancy way of saying "they all squeak once you start using them").

This is not an indication of actual or imminent failure, or any condition that would in any way compromise suspension or steering safety. Actually, I would be inclined to think that the cessation of squeaking in bushings that formerly did so would be a harbinger of failure rather than the other way around, because that would mean they had slopped out enough that the squeak might be replaced by a clunk or a rattle, followed soon after by the vehicle veering uncontrollably into oncoming traffic upon light brake applications or altering the volume on the stereo.

So please choose your words more carefully, as children will be reading this and may be alarmed at the association of noise with actual failure. (it's OK kiddies, the noise is just the boogeyman squeaking and how many times have I told you there's no such thing as the boogeyman). As bad as it is, we don't need anyone losing sleep over this. Failure is indicated, as is made clear in Bentley, by loss of concentricity of the pivot bolt in the bushing. Period. You can do your own survey and you will see that there are many many Vanagons with both OEM and replacement bushings installed, that drive everywhere accompanied by two big bags of angry rats, but that still pass this basic test.

Rave on.


If I can hear my suspension, it is failing the sound check. Sure it's keeping my wheels aligned, but it shouldn't agrivate me with every bump in the road by making any ugly noises.

Urethane bushings will be worse. Rubber is the key. Let's get some dimensions and find an alternative.
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