Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Generator pulley shims
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - Split-Window/1938-53 VWs Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
johnshenry
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9403
Location: Northwood, NH USA
johnshenry is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Generator pulley shims Reply with quote

Sorting through my boxes of gen parts, I have lots of shims and HW.

How many shims are there in/on the 25 hp pulley. The '52-'57 book shows 6. I have some (many, actually) that are thick, maybe .5mm or more, and a few, same size and cutout, that are thin, like the 36hp ones. Anyone have other data/sources and know the correct number???

Were two kinds used? When??

TIA,
_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Suboval
Samba Member


Joined: September 15, 2003
Posts: 802

Suboval is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The picture on page 4-6 of the 52-57 Manual shows a 25 hp motor.
My Split manual shows 6 washers.
The Spare Parts list says 8 washers.
My 50 Split has 5 - 1mm washer and 1 - 3mm washer . The 3mm washer is next to the generator nut.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
johnshenry
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9403
Location: Northwood, NH USA
johnshenry is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Kurt. That's interesting. I was sorting all my washers and found quite a few really thick ones, but I assumed that they went on the other end, on either side of the fan?

I couldn't find any pics in the '52-'57 manual that showed the fan hardware.
_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
52HoffmanSplit
Samba Member


Joined: April 07, 2006
Posts: 1272
Location: Lamorinda CA
52HoffmanSplit is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine has 8.... 6 thick and 2 thin.. but I think its far too many as the generator bolt doesnt come flush with the 32mm nut, only about 3/4 of the way. I have often wondered what is the correct amount. Smile This is how it was when I bought it.. so haven't really changed it.

I was watching this topic to see what the consensus was.
_________________
DB

9/1950 Hoffman Standard
11/1966 Porsche 912
10/1966 Porsche 912
7/1968 Type 265 Double Cab
10/1958 Type 117
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ProjectX
Accessory Nut


Joined: May 01, 2006
Posts: 1014

ProjectX is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just pulled apart my 53 Oval generator (25 HP) for detailing and saw the following. There are 2 very thick washers on the fan side, with some very thin washers that are almost shim like.

The pulley side gets some washers that are in between these two in thickness. I will post a count tonight, as I bagged them seperate. It appeared to have never been apart when I disassembled it.
_________________
Even my nuts are plated.....

195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
johnshenry
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9403
Location: Northwood, NH USA
johnshenry is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

56OvalRHD wrote:
I just pulled apart my 53 Oval generator (25 HP) for detailing and saw the following. There are 2 very thick washers on the fan side, with some very thin washers that are almost shim like.

The pulley side gets some washers that are in between these two in thickness. I will post a count tonight, as I bagged them seperate. It appeared to have never been apart when I disassembled it.


Well that explains a bit further. I actually have found 4 different types of washers in my stash.

The one I have the most of (this pile was amassed after tearing down about 4-5 gens) are I'd say around .7 mm (just a guess, I can mic them tonight).

Then I have 2 kinds of the really thick ones, one is a bit bigger in diameter than the other but the same thickness.

And I have 1-2 of these real thin ones like 56OvalRHD describes. Like shim material, about the same thickness as the 36hp washers.

56OvalRHD, were the two thick ones on either side of the fan? Are they the same size (dia) ??


I also think that as these cars were serviced, belts changed, in and out of various shops, washers were probably added, lost, changed, etc. Hard to tell what is original unless documented.......
_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ProjectX
Accessory Nut


Joined: May 01, 2006
Posts: 1014

ProjectX is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take my mic home with me tonight and give a full report tonight!
_________________
Even my nuts are plated.....

195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
skeeter!
Samba Member


Joined: November 05, 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Long Beach, CA
skeeter! is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always been taught that you should have a total of 8-10 shims, including the inner and outer side of the pulley. The number of inner shims depends on the free play in your belt, and the outer shims are kept there to keep the bolt straight. If you ever get to the point where you don't need any inner shims, you know it's time to replace the belt.
_________________
Life's better with a detachable roof!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
ProjectX
Accessory Nut


Joined: May 01, 2006
Posts: 1014

ProjectX is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I forgot my micrometer on the way out. But here is the count.

There are 2 thick washers on the fan side, about 1/8 in thickness + 3 shim like washers. The inside hole is round on the thick and thin washers. The picture I took before disassembly shows 1 thick washer, then the fan, the other thick washer then the 3 thin washers then the large nut.

There are 8 washers for the belt pulley side, and their thickness is in between the very thin and very thick washers on the fan side of the generator. They are also different in that the inside hole is round with 2 flat sides to match the carrier bushing that slides on the generator shaft. That's the easy way to spot them in a batch of washers.

I'll mic them tomorrow and report.
_________________
Even my nuts are plated.....

195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
coad Premium Member
Samba Scapegoat


Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7560

coad is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skeeter! wrote:
I've always been taught that you should have a total of 8-10 shims, including the inner and outer side of the pulley. The number of inner shims depends on the free play in your belt, and the outer shims are kept there to keep the bolt straight. If you ever get to the point where you don't need any inner shims, you know it's time to replace the belt.


Harry Pellow, the 356 guru, did an article once on the importance of those spare washers. Too few washers and your pulley would crack. I can't find the article though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
52HoffmanSplit
Samba Member


Joined: April 07, 2006
Posts: 1272
Location: Lamorinda CA
52HoffmanSplit is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coad wrote:
skeeter! wrote:
I've always been taught that you should have a total of 8-10 shims, including the inner and outer side of the pulley. The number of inner shims depends on the free play in your belt, and the outer shims are kept there to keep the bolt straight. If you ever get to the point where you don't need any inner shims, you know it's time to replace the belt.


Harry Pellow, the 356 guru, did an article once on the importance of those spare washers. Too few washers and your pulley would crack. I can't find the article though.


Is it in "Secrets of the Inner Circle" I have a copy and can check....but.... Its A LOT of material.. and not too well indexed. I will look. See you in a month. Smile
_________________
DB

9/1950 Hoffman Standard
11/1966 Porsche 912
10/1966 Porsche 912
7/1968 Type 265 Double Cab
10/1958 Type 117
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kevm
Samba Member


Joined: January 19, 2004
Posts: 263
Location: UK
kevm is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Generator shims Reply with quote

Hi Everyone,

I recently took my generator apart and didn't make any notes so I am interested in this thread. I think I have the answer for the pulley end, looking at my 52-57 manual it states the following:-

Note: From chassis no 1-0575415 onwards the fan belt allows a finer adjustment, as, beside the six spacer washers of 1.5mm thickness in front of the outer pulley half, there are a further 8 washers of 0.5mm thickness between the two pulley halves.

From this I assume before chassis no 575415 there was just the six 1.5mm spacers. The diagram also shows 6 shims.

I want to put my gen back together soon but I can find no reference to the fan end so if someone knows the assembly sequence that would be very helpful. From memory I have 1 or 2 thicker washers a wavey washer and a thick larger diameter washer.

Cheers
Kev

P.S. Many thanks John for your generator resto thread it has been very useful, I haven't had the case replated because my cars resto is more sympathetic than that but I have rewrapped the windings and soldered on new cloth covered wires etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
coad Premium Member
Samba Scapegoat


Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7560

coad is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

52HoffmanSplit wrote:
coad wrote:

Harry Pellow, the 356 guru, did an article once on the importance of those spare washers. Too few washers and your pulley would crack. I can't find the article though.


Is it in "Secrets of the Inner Circle" I have a copy and can check....but.... Its A LOT of material.. and not too well indexed. I will look. See you in a month. Smile


It's in one of his books. He had it calculated to the mm in his usual anal fashion. One mm more or less and total destruction was guaranteed.

If you do go wading into Secrets, one of the main bearing failure horror story pictures is my old B. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
virtanen
Samba Member


Joined: January 08, 2006
Posts: 1478
Location: Finland
virtanen is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here again some help in German:

http://www.vw-classic.net/repleitfaden_typ11_52_57/repleitfaden_52_57_kapitel_M.pdf
http://www.vw-classic.net/repleitfaden_typ11_52_57/repleitfaden_52_57_kapitel_E.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kevm
Samba Member


Joined: January 19, 2004
Posts: 263
Location: UK
kevm is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:52 am    Post subject: Fan washers Reply with quote

Hi John,

This diagram from your scanned 45 parts manual shows the washers for the fan side. It doesn't show a washer the other side of the fan but i'm sure there was one on mine when I took it apart.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Cheers
Kev
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bruce
Samba Member


Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17489
Location: Left coast, Canada
Bruce is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Generator shims Reply with quote

kevm wrote:
.... looking at my 52-57 manual it states the following:-

Note: From chassis no 1-0575415 onwards the fan belt allows a finer adjustment, as, beside the six spacer washers of 1.5mm thickness in front of the outer pulley half, there are a further 8 washers of 0.5mm thickness between the two pulley halves.

From this I assume before chassis no 575415 there was just the six 1.5mm spacers. The diagram also shows 6 shims.

I just did some research and what I found agrees with this. I have a copy of the 56 and earlier parts list and under part number 111 903 123 it says quantity of 6. These are the shims with the two straight sides on the ID and are 1.5mm thick.
_________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote:
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
James Davies
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2013
Posts: 145
Location: Baltimore, USA
James Davies is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The correct number of shims inside the pulley halves is the number that makes the V-belt ride where it is supposed to - not too high, not too low, the Goldilocks position where it also has the correct tension. New belts need to be re-shimmed to get the correct tension as they stretch after very short period of use.

If you pull out too many shims so that the belt rides too high for the right tension, then you probably need to replace your belt as it is too stretched.

On early '50s Porsches, the Factory manual says the correct tension should be 2 cm of deflection for the belt. The pulley comes standard with 8 spacers (6 2mm and 2 1mm). Ones not used inside the pulley go on the outside behind the tightening nut. Not sure this is identical for VWs, but I would guess it is.

See below from the '54 Porsche Factory workshop manual.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by James Davies on Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Aussiebug
Samba Member


Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
Aussiebug is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1959 copy of the Aussie Scientific Publications VW workshop manual (quote "All cars to January 1959" unquote) which covers both the 1131 and early 1192cc engines shows both a pic and a drawing with 6 identical looking washers. All appear to have flattened sides to the hole.

The drawing shows all 6 washers between the pulley halves, and the pic shows 4 inside and 2 outside with a "put here" arrow for the excess washers, indicating to me that there should be 6 in total, and of course, the "right" number between the pulley halves to get the belt tension set correctly, with the rest under the nut.

It also says that a new belt should be checked after about 60 miles as it will settle in and loosen during that period.

It's interesting that this varies from the pic posted above. Now I think about it, Australia did not officially get any bugs until 1956 (and I remember seeing them on a demo run when I was a kid), so perhaps this Aussie manual really means 1956 to 1959, rather than ALL cars to 1959.
_________________
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tasb Premium Member
The Distributor Distributor


Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6513
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
tasb is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Generator pulley shims Reply with quote

Ok, need some help please. My 1957 Kombi has a fair number of early engine parts installed. It has a late 25 hp pulley from Virtanen, I rebuilt a 25 hp fuel pump, A restored 1953 generator/regulator, you get the picture. It has been running through V belts and I suspect it's the number of shims. After reading the above and going through my shim stack I have some questions.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't have any 1 mm or 2 mm shims they are all a fractional of the above. What gives?
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

Member# 2059
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BulliBill
Samba Member


Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4694
Location: St Charles, MO
BulliBill is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Generator pulley shims Reply with quote

Okay, it's a few years later and now I'm cleaning and sorting thru my pile of generator and generator pulley parts to make sense of it all. I thought I'd add to "tasb" four year old chart above...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is an example of each of the different washers and spacer shims that I have with their approximate dimensions and thicknesses measured with a digital caliper, noted as to whether they are flat or "wavy"... There may be more that I don't possess. The top row (with the flat sides on the inner diameter) I'm pretty sure are correct for 1955 and older generators. The bottom row middle and right washers are thick and I believe go on the fan end of the generator. And where the hell does that one in the upper right corner fit (smaller O.D.)?

Bill Bowman
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Split-Window/1938-53 VWs All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2024, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.