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johnshenry Samba Member

Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9403 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Generator pulley shims |
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Sorting through my boxes of gen parts, I have lots of shims and HW.
How many shims are there in/on the 25 hp pulley. The '52-'57 book shows 6. I have some (many, actually) that are thick, maybe .5mm or more, and a few, same size and cutout, that are thin, like the 36hp ones. Anyone have other data/sources and know the correct number???
Were two kinds used? When??
TIA, _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Suboval Samba Member

Joined: September 15, 2003 Posts: 802
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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The picture on page 4-6 of the 52-57 Manual shows a 25 hp motor.
My Split manual shows 6 washers.
The Spare Parts list says 8 washers.
My 50 Split has 5 - 1mm washer and 1 - 3mm washer . The 3mm washer is next to the generator nut. |
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johnshenry Samba Member

Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9403 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Kurt. That's interesting. I was sorting all my washers and found quite a few really thick ones, but I assumed that they went on the other end, on either side of the fan?
I couldn't find any pics in the '52-'57 manual that showed the fan hardware. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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52HoffmanSplit Samba Member

Joined: April 07, 2006 Posts: 1272 Location: Lamorinda CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Mine has 8.... 6 thick and 2 thin.. but I think its far too many as the generator bolt doesnt come flush with the 32mm nut, only about 3/4 of the way. I have often wondered what is the correct amount. This is how it was when I bought it.. so haven't really changed it.
I was watching this topic to see what the consensus was. _________________ DB
9/1950 Hoffman Standard
11/1966 Porsche 912
10/1966 Porsche 912
7/1968 Type 265 Double Cab
10/1958 Type 117 |
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ProjectX Accessory Nut

Joined: May 01, 2006 Posts: 1014
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: |
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I just pulled apart my 53 Oval generator (25 HP) for detailing and saw the following. There are 2 very thick washers on the fan side, with some very thin washers that are almost shim like.
The pulley side gets some washers that are in between these two in thickness. I will post a count tonight, as I bagged them seperate. It appeared to have never been apart when I disassembled it. _________________ Even my nuts are plated.....
195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible |
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johnshenry Samba Member

Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9403 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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56OvalRHD wrote: |
I just pulled apart my 53 Oval generator (25 HP) for detailing and saw the following. There are 2 very thick washers on the fan side, with some very thin washers that are almost shim like.
The pulley side gets some washers that are in between these two in thickness. I will post a count tonight, as I bagged them seperate. It appeared to have never been apart when I disassembled it. |
Well that explains a bit further. I actually have found 4 different types of washers in my stash.
The one I have the most of (this pile was amassed after tearing down about 4-5 gens) are I'd say around .7 mm (just a guess, I can mic them tonight).
Then I have 2 kinds of the really thick ones, one is a bit bigger in diameter than the other but the same thickness.
And I have 1-2 of these real thin ones like 56OvalRHD describes. Like shim material, about the same thickness as the 36hp washers.
56OvalRHD, were the two thick ones on either side of the fan? Are they the same size (dia) ??
I also think that as these cars were serviced, belts changed, in and out of various shops, washers were probably added, lost, changed, etc. Hard to tell what is original unless documented....... _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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ProjectX Accessory Nut

Joined: May 01, 2006 Posts: 1014
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: |
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I'll take my mic home with me tonight and give a full report tonight! _________________ Even my nuts are plated.....
195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible |
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skeeter! Samba Member

Joined: November 05, 2005 Posts: 167 Location: Long Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I've always been taught that you should have a total of 8-10 shims, including the inner and outer side of the pulley. The number of inner shims depends on the free play in your belt, and the outer shims are kept there to keep the bolt straight. If you ever get to the point where you don't need any inner shims, you know it's time to replace the belt. _________________ Life's better with a detachable roof! |
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ProjectX Accessory Nut

Joined: May 01, 2006 Posts: 1014
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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OK, I forgot my micrometer on the way out. But here is the count.
There are 2 thick washers on the fan side, about 1/8 in thickness + 3 shim like washers. The inside hole is round on the thick and thin washers. The picture I took before disassembly shows 1 thick washer, then the fan, the other thick washer then the 3 thin washers then the large nut.
There are 8 washers for the belt pulley side, and their thickness is in between the very thin and very thick washers on the fan side of the generator. They are also different in that the inside hole is round with 2 flat sides to match the carrier bushing that slides on the generator shaft. That's the easy way to spot them in a batch of washers.
I'll mic them tomorrow and report. _________________ Even my nuts are plated.....
195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible |
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coad  Samba Scapegoat

Joined: September 12, 2002 Posts: 7560
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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skeeter! wrote: |
I've always been taught that you should have a total of 8-10 shims, including the inner and outer side of the pulley. The number of inner shims depends on the free play in your belt, and the outer shims are kept there to keep the bolt straight. If you ever get to the point where you don't need any inner shims, you know it's time to replace the belt. |
Harry Pellow, the 356 guru, did an article once on the importance of those spare washers. Too few washers and your pulley would crack. I can't find the article though. |
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52HoffmanSplit Samba Member

Joined: April 07, 2006 Posts: 1272 Location: Lamorinda CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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coad wrote: |
skeeter! wrote: |
I've always been taught that you should have a total of 8-10 shims, including the inner and outer side of the pulley. The number of inner shims depends on the free play in your belt, and the outer shims are kept there to keep the bolt straight. If you ever get to the point where you don't need any inner shims, you know it's time to replace the belt. |
Harry Pellow, the 356 guru, did an article once on the importance of those spare washers. Too few washers and your pulley would crack. I can't find the article though. |
Is it in "Secrets of the Inner Circle" I have a copy and can check....but.... Its A LOT of material.. and not too well indexed. I will look. See you in a month.  _________________ DB
9/1950 Hoffman Standard
11/1966 Porsche 912
10/1966 Porsche 912
7/1968 Type 265 Double Cab
10/1958 Type 117 |
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kevm Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004 Posts: 263 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Generator shims |
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Hi Everyone,
I recently took my generator apart and didn't make any notes so I am interested in this thread. I think I have the answer for the pulley end, looking at my 52-57 manual it states the following:-
Note: From chassis no 1-0575415 onwards the fan belt allows a finer adjustment, as, beside the six spacer washers of 1.5mm thickness in front of the outer pulley half, there are a further 8 washers of 0.5mm thickness between the two pulley halves.
From this I assume before chassis no 575415 there was just the six 1.5mm spacers. The diagram also shows 6 shims.
I want to put my gen back together soon but I can find no reference to the fan end so if someone knows the assembly sequence that would be very helpful. From memory I have 1 or 2 thicker washers a wavey washer and a thick larger diameter washer.
Cheers
Kev
P.S. Many thanks John for your generator resto thread it has been very useful, I haven't had the case replated because my cars resto is more sympathetic than that but I have rewrapped the windings and soldered on new cloth covered wires etc. |
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coad  Samba Scapegoat

Joined: September 12, 2002 Posts: 7560
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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52HoffmanSplit wrote: |
coad wrote: |
Harry Pellow, the 356 guru, did an article once on the importance of those spare washers. Too few washers and your pulley would crack. I can't find the article though. |
Is it in "Secrets of the Inner Circle" I have a copy and can check....but.... Its A LOT of material.. and not too well indexed. I will look. See you in a month.  |
It's in one of his books. He had it calculated to the mm in his usual anal fashion. One mm more or less and total destruction was guaranteed.
If you do go wading into Secrets, one of the main bearing failure horror story pictures is my old B.  |
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virtanen Samba Member

Joined: January 08, 2006 Posts: 1478 Location: Finland
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kevm Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2004 Posts: 263 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:52 am Post subject: Fan washers |
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Hi John,
This diagram from your scanned 45 parts manual shows the washers for the fan side. It doesn't show a washer the other side of the fan but i'm sure there was one on mine when I took it apart.
Cheers
Kev |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17489 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Generator shims |
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kevm wrote: |
.... looking at my 52-57 manual it states the following:-
Note: From chassis no 1-0575415 onwards the fan belt allows a finer adjustment, as, beside the six spacer washers of 1.5mm thickness in front of the outer pulley half, there are a further 8 washers of 0.5mm thickness between the two pulley halves.
From this I assume before chassis no 575415 there was just the six 1.5mm spacers. The diagram also shows 6 shims.
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I just did some research and what I found agrees with this. I have a copy of the 56 and earlier parts list and under part number 111 903 123 it says quantity of 6. These are the shims with the two straight sides on the ID and are 1.5mm thick. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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James Davies Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2013 Posts: 145 Location: Baltimore, USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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The correct number of shims inside the pulley halves is the number that makes the V-belt ride where it is supposed to - not too high, not too low, the Goldilocks position where it also has the correct tension. New belts need to be re-shimmed to get the correct tension as they stretch after very short period of use.
If you pull out too many shims so that the belt rides too high for the right tension, then you probably need to replace your belt as it is too stretched.
On early '50s Porsches, the Factory manual says the correct tension should be 2 cm of deflection for the belt. The pulley comes standard with 8 spacers (6 2mm and 2 1mm). Ones not used inside the pulley go on the outside behind the tightening nut. Not sure this is identical for VWs, but I would guess it is.
See below from the '54 Porsche Factory workshop manual.
Last edited by James Davies on Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Aussiebug Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002 Posts: 2162 Location: Adelaide Australia
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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My 1959 copy of the Aussie Scientific Publications VW workshop manual (quote "All cars to January 1959" unquote) which covers both the 1131 and early 1192cc engines shows both a pic and a drawing with 6 identical looking washers. All appear to have flattened sides to the hole.
The drawing shows all 6 washers between the pulley halves, and the pic shows 4 inside and 2 outside with a "put here" arrow for the excess washers, indicating to me that there should be 6 in total, and of course, the "right" number between the pulley halves to get the belt tension set correctly, with the rest under the nut.
It also says that a new belt should be checked after about 60 miles as it will settle in and loosen during that period.
It's interesting that this varies from the pic posted above. Now I think about it, Australia did not officially get any bugs until 1956 (and I remember seeing them on a demo run when I was a kid), so perhaps this Aussie manual really means 1956 to 1959, rather than ALL cars to 1959. _________________ Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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tasb  The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6513 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Generator pulley shims |
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Ok, need some help please. My 1957 Kombi has a fair number of early engine parts installed. It has a late 25 hp pulley from Virtanen, I rebuilt a 25 hp fuel pump, A restored 1953 generator/regulator, you get the picture. It has been running through V belts and I suspect it's the number of shims. After reading the above and going through my shim stack I have some questions.
I don't have any 1 mm or 2 mm shims they are all a fractional of the above. What gives? _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Member# 2059 |
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BulliBill Samba Member

Joined: July 09, 2004 Posts: 4694 Location: St Charles, MO
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Generator pulley shims |
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Okay, it's a few years later and now I'm cleaning and sorting thru my pile of generator and generator pulley parts to make sense of it all. I thought I'd add to "tasb" four year old chart above...
Here is an example of each of the different washers and spacer shims that I have with their approximate dimensions and thicknesses measured with a digital caliper, noted as to whether they are flat or "wavy"... There may be more that I don't possess. The top row (with the flat sides on the inner diameter) I'm pretty sure are correct for 1955 and older generators. The bottom row middle and right washers are thick and I believe go on the fan end of the generator. And where the hell does that one in the upper right corner fit (smaller O.D.)?
Bill Bowman _________________ I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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