GoWesty vs Van-Cafe springs

[BlackDogVan]

I installed the GW springs a while back and absolutly love them. Other than the ride quality one of the best benefits for diesel conversion types is they allow large enough tires to be installed to put a TDi or AAZ in the perfect rpm range without any costly tranny mods. (225-70-17's to be exact & no they don't rub & yes I do have 3/8" spacers up front, 1/4" out back)
One question I have for anyone who has them... Every now & then over a nasty speed bump at parking lot speeds the shock tops out making a nice deep bang noise. I have stock rear shocks & HD Bilstens up front. I know the cure is probably bilstens in the rear, i'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced this. It is a transporter & I imagine a westie's added weight would make a difference.

[jeepwillies]

I am in the middle of doing my springs right now and was wondering if it is possible to do the fronts without a spring compressor, or will I need to go rent one?

Cheers!
Dave
_________________
87 Automatic Westy TDI'd

[Ryan Alfonso]

OK, just had the old Syncro.org springs yanked and the GoWesty 2wd springs put in. Huge difference. It feels very stable without feeling stiff or harsh in ride quality. Cleared the top of the garage by about 1/4 inch. I hope it settles down in the next couple weeks. Rear is at about 18.5 inches, front is a pinch under 18 (but then I wasn't on a flat spot exactly). Only problem with these so far was the cost - for which gowe$ty is famou$ for, but whatcha gonna do, eh? Bottom line: better ride quality with gowesty springs vs. syncro.org. gowesty springs may be too high however.

[cheekoman]

you will need compressors. I just did mine not too long ago and I certainly needed them...

[Ryan Alfonso]

Bad scientist! I changed too many things at once. Along with changing the springs, I put in a new set of bilsteins up front. That certainly has helped the front feel stiffer which is what I was looking for. It measures out to 18 in the front and 18.5 in the rear. Again, I have a TiiCo engine and a westfalia. Therefore, some extra shimming had to happen on the left rear (about a half inch or so). I just got it back from the alignment shop this am. Feels pretty good. It's dang tall though! Friends are calling it a FAUX wheel drive. Hah![/i]

[tii]

A previous thread on springs and measurements.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=284534&highlight=

[insyncro]

I would just like to add that the progressive springs, GWs are not well suited for the extra weight of engine conversions and/or very heavy rack systems on the back of a Vanagon.
I have seen more than one Syncro Westy built with an SVX motor and the progressive springs....I would not recommend this.

dylan

[sc-surfer]

[madspaniard]

[Rubber Tramp]

BUMP


Just curious why you say you would not recommend this? I know it would probably make the rear sag a bit, but you could just add spacers.

I'm in the middle of an SVX conversion on a 2wd and was looking at the GW springs...

[insyncro]

Hi Guys,
I was pmailed to explain my comment a bit more, so here goes.

PROGRESSIVE RATE SPRING
Definition: A spring with an increasing spring constant. For example, if the first inch of spring motion requires 100 pounds of force, the second inch would require more than an additional 100 pounds, and the third inch would require still more. Progressive-rate springs become stiffer as they are compressed, unlike single-rate springs, which have a fixed spring weight.

So with this as the definition of progressive, I feel that the added weight of engines and rear racks will actually decrease the ability of the spring to do its job as it is compressed more with the added weight at its resting state. I have had GW springs in both 7pass Syncro SVX vans and a Syncro Westy SVX van. Both types were very hard riding in the rear due to the extra rate.
I have called GW and talked to Taylor about this.
The springs rates were decided by them for vans with stock waterboxers and they offer hopped up boxers that weigh the same as a stock engine.
They are now working with Burley to offer coilovers and fabricated upper control arms to not only lift a van but allow for swapping of different spring rates much easier.
I am currently building another Syncro SVX Carat and will be using a coilover setup to dial in my rates for such conversion.
I also use a Longacre scale system to balance my vans, right to left and front to back. This same procedure is used for most racecars as they change spring rates for different tracks and changing conditions.
If you have a stock Syncro, the GW progressives are by far the most cost effective and best choice for overall ride height and drivability, IMHO.
I am no stranger to Syncro vans, currently owning 9 of them.
I have used Syncro.org, GW and three other sets of custom wound springs from Germany over the years.
If you have specific questions, please feel free to pmail me and if you are on the East Coast, I am located in Hudson, NY, 2 hours north of NYC.
I am not a business, just a Syncro fanatic. I do work on vans for owners wanting full service conversions and fabrications.

Hope this helps.

dylan

[insyncro]

Adding spacers will change the ride height of the van, but will do nothing to the spring rates.

dylan

[Rubber Tramp]

That makes sense.
I thought you were talking of the ride height and not spring rate.


I have a 2wd westy with an svx. I'd like a nice lift, so is there a better option than the gowesty progressive springs?
_________________
1985 SVX powered Westy - soon to be converted to syncro


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=382910
^^^Rocky Mountain Westy SVX rebuild and conversion^^^

[Alaric.H]

[1621]

[joetiger]

I'm also considering new springs...What about the SmallCar springs?

http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29783

From the link:

"We have also designed into them more strength in the rear to work nicely with Subaru and other engines as well as added heaters, racks, trailers and other added loads. These are not lifting or lowering springs but typically raise the ride height on a Wolfsburg or Carat by 3/4" depending on the age of your original springs."

I don't know anything about them, just curious as to whether or not anybody has personal experience with them.

Honestly, I'm thinking of trying the Moog 5660's in front and the Monroe load-leveler shocks in the rear (discussed at length in other threads) mainly because of the drastically lower cost involved.
_________________
Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present

www.josephtrussell.com

[1621]

From what I've heard (don't quote me on this) their design was copied from Syncro.org's design, which is the spring Peter sells at Van-Cafe. I think there was some arguing between S.org and SC about that one. At any rate, I don't think you'll see much of a difference between the two sets.

I've got the Van-cafe springs and they've been great. I've settled in at ~17" all around on my heavy Westy, and I've also got spring spacers in the rear. I'd like a little more ride height to space out my 215/70-16 sized tires a touch more, but it's not entirely necessary at this point. The one concern I have is retaining my Koni's with the taller springs. Konis are only a touch shorter than the Bilsteins (don't recall off the top of my head but I posted the exact measurement comparisons somewhere in the forum) but I don't want bottoming out to occur. Alaric's limiting strap suggestion gives me some ideas though...
_________________
'85 Westy

[insyncro]

Yes, Small Car springs were copied from S.org.
They added about 3% to the rate.
They are single rate springs and will work better with the heavier engines.
Both S.org and SC will need shimming to level your van and will sag over time. Just reshim to level.
I have both in use and prefer the ride of S.org springs with Old Man Emu gas filled shocks in a stock Syncro. Nice ride height, spring rates are perfect. I run this setup with 215/75/15 tires which have a 27.9 diameter, no need to cut fenderwells.
The SC springs are being used in a Syncro SVX and have performed well over the last 3 years. Tiny bit stiffer than S.org. This van is on 16s with 65 series tires so the wells didn't need to be cut either.

Again, the coilover sets now available will allow for total customization and ease is changing ride height and spring rates. Yes, that setup is thousands of dollars, but worth it, IMHO.

dylan

[HeftySmurf]

I definitely notice that the addded weight of the conversion sags a bit with the GW springs. I actually feel they are a bit too tall for my liking in my van. Makes my tires look too small.
If interested, I may be selling mine and going with some thing different.
They only have about 7k on them. PM me if any one is interested

_________________
-Lorenzo
90 GL w/ Bostig

[Westy-Life]

I bought the VanCafe ones over a year ago and was not very happy with them. They raised the van height allot in the front 1 to 1.5 inches and only about a .25 of an inch in the rear. I still had the sagging butt issue and this was all before we loaded the van up for out 7 month trip! But VC having very good customer service sent me some extra spacers to put in as well. This helped, but still not enough. I then also had to add the airbags to keep it from sagging really bad when it was loaded up for camping.

In the end, I would look at someone else's springs.

Cheers!
Dave
_________________
86 Westfalia with 03' TDI Auto trans