Propane in garage

[mrtee]

Hi
Not sure if this a silly question but does anyone know if there are any issues with house insurance by keeping a camper with a propane tank in your garage?


I know of someone who had to remove a tank so they could park a van in their condo parkade but I don't know if this affects private garages.
Thanks in advance.

[pioneer1]

Good question for your insurance agent. Ask about storing BBQ tanks in the garage too
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"Always waiting for tomorrow ruined everything"

'85 Porsche 911 Targa

'76 Westfalia project

[Ahwahnee]

I do this all the time but not w/o some care. I make very sure there is absolutely no leaking, none, nada, not a whiff of propane smell.

Propane mixed with air is like a bomb if ignited and it is easily ignited so I think an insurance agent would take the same view as a condo garage or many other places and say don't do it. Afterall he does not know how careful you are or are not nor how well maintained (or not) the system is.

[scobax]

Our insurance company, State Farm, sent out a supplemental addendum to our policy a couple of years ago stating that we would not be covered in the case of a fire caused by stored fuels. The addendum caught my attention because of its specificity. I assume fuel storage has started to become more common due to high fuel prices and an increasing sense of impending societal collapse.

That being said, We have four 20 pound propane bottles on hand. They are terribly stable and secure so I don't give them a second thought. Save a direct lightning strike I don't see the problem. In that case, it would be a fire caused by lightning, not the fuel, though I imagine State Farm would have a different opinion.
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87 Syncro Westy w/ Suby 2.5
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[Westified]

I found this old post since I have the same concerns. I put a new GoWesty propane tank manufactured by Manchester tanks in the US on my Westy recently. I was getting ready to fill it. I keep my Westy in my attached garage and began wondering is it safe? Will my insurance company reject my claim if my house burns down? I started researching this on the internet. I could find information on the 20lb barbecue tanks which said no you can't keep those in the house. They must be in a covered ventilated storage area at least 10 feet from the house.

I called Manchester tanks the manufacturer and they said without hesitation, if you fill the tank do NOT park in your garage. They explained the tank will periodically vent especially if it isn't used frequently or the temperature is warm in the Garage. A hot garage in florida is every day for 7 months of the year.

So there you have it. The answer is no. Park it outside. I was planning an electric fridge so, I may delete the tank and convert the stove to the 1 lb bottles.
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1984 Westy Wolfsburg, owned since 1987. FAS 2.0 NA engine conversion in 2022.

[Terry Kay]

All policies are different, some may cover the house with the van in the garage some may not.

You can pay for just about any coverage.
I would suggest calling your agent, not manchester.
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T.K.

[Westified]

Good idea. Thanks TK. I did read through my policy but cannot find any answer. I know here in Miami they have had discussions regarding storing gasoline for generators in hurricane season. The fire code says we can only store 5 gallons. I did call the fire dept but the haven't called me back. I will call my agent. The lady at Manchester did say our tanks vent periodically. That concerned me since I have a gas hot water heater in the garage that has a pilot light. Ka Boom.
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1984 Westy Wolfsburg, owned since 1987. FAS 2.0 NA engine conversion in 2022.

[Ahwahnee]

The insurer may make a distinction between a tank that is permanently installed on a vehicle and one that is portable (like a 20# BBQ tank).

After all, you have a tank of gasoline there every time you park the car so presumably that is not 'stored fuels'.

I do not buy the idea that it will periodically vent - I have never experienced that in 25 years of having the Westy in my garage. I can almost imagine that a freshly filled tank in a hot garage might vent - but that is avoidable.

I fill the tank only when I am ready to go on the road in a day or two. IOW, if I come home from a trip with a partial tank I do not get it filled until I am going to be using propane again soon or better yet, when I am on the road.

I am sure that for liability concerns a manufacturer such as Manchester has to take the position they stated.

[Westified]

Good point Ahwahnee. I was surprised when they said it would vent. My garage is usually around 90 to a max of 95 in the summer. Good idea not to fill it until I am ready to leave on a trip. I was wondering if anyone else had them vent. Go to hear your experience.
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1984 Westy Wolfsburg, owned since 1987. FAS 2.0 NA engine conversion in 2022.

[dobryan]

Never heard of one venting.... but I suppose under just the wrong conditions it 'could' happen. But I never give it a second thought. Think about how many westy's and small RV's are parked in garages without a thought.
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Dave O
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[Terry Kay]

And there is the key in the last message.
How many folks park their vans in the garage?
I have never heard of any regulator venting of it's own accord.

The water heater in the garage is (maybe) a bad deal because if the tank did leak the gas stays low--

If you have all relatively good valving on the tank, there shouldn't / wouldn't be any problems.
If you are still using an antique Autostop fill valve, this is something you change promptly if you are going to park the van inside.
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T.K.

[furrylittleotter]

These are all good questions.

I install/service HVAC and can not tell you how many times I have found gasoline stored in the mechanical room next to a water heater.

Common sense just isn't that common any more.

That being said your garage should never be any warmer than ambient temperature.(outdoor temp).

If it is you should definitely consider ventilating it better.

Foundation style vents coupled with ridge vents, roof vents or a thermostat controlled fan will all accomplish this with little to no power and will evacuate all the odors emitted by the off gassing of whatever you have in the area.(fertilizer, etc.)



This is one area of the home usually neglected.

If the garage is properly vented there will be no increase in temperatures and therefore no "periodic venting".

In actuality the tank does not randomly vent.

It does so when pressure increases.btw: all fuel tanks in cars do this as well, they just do so through a charcoal filter which scrubs the smell, so the moral is don't park your car in an attached unvented garage . Period.

Neil2

[MidwestDrifter]

Propane tanks will only vent when the pressure exceeds a certain limit. This pressure corresponds to a temperature much higher than ambient will ever get. The tank needs external heat to get this warm. A dark colored tank in direct sun can sometimes get this hot, that is why most tanks are painted white.

The exception to this rule is if a tank is overfilled. Their should always be vapor space at the top of the tank to allow for thermal expansion of the liquid. If there is none or an insufficient amount the tank will reach the safety vent pressure and it will vent until the tank has reached a safe level. This may happen a few times if the tank has been overfilled. The safety valves almost never fail, and are very robust.

The regulators have a diaphragm which can develop a pinhole leak. This will cause propane to slowly leak from a small hole in the regulators casing. This happens occasionally. The danger from this type of leak (in an enclosed space) can be removed by simply closing the tank shutoff valve when parking the van.

The ASME approved tanks used in permanently mounted vehicle applications are incomparable to the portable ones. They are much more robust, and use higher quality components. The DOT 20lb tanks are designed to be nearly disposable and light to carry.
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2004 Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter (Custom Camper)
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[termuehlen]

A little off base here, but we were not allowed to park our Westy in the Hoover Dam parking garage because of the propane tank. We posed a security risk to the facility, and they made us park outside in the open parking areas.
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1988 Westfalia automatic Subaru OBD1
1986 syncro tintop wbx

[Westified]

Regarding Furrylittleotter's comment on ventilating the garage, I agree. I have foundation vents, soffit vents and a full ridge vent. My garage is usually ambient temperature or cooler. Upon further research on Manchester Tank's website they state their tanks have a working pressure of 312 psi at which point the relief valve activates. A table on their website shows Vapor Pressure at 70 degrees to be 127, 100 degrees 196 and 110 degrees 230. The tanks are are supposed to be filled to 80 percent capacity. If overfilled they may vent. They do warn on their website to only keep their tanks outside. You decide. It seems if properly filled and maintained and not overheated they should not vent based on the above. Again for your safety review their website to verify this.

I also went on RoadTreks website and they have a very nice writeup on propane safety and use. They say their tanks shouldn't vent unless overheated as a result of a fire or setting in direct sunlight. http://roadtreking.com/innards-rv-propane-tank/

So to be 100% safe keep it outside and not in direct sunlight.
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1984 Westy Wolfsburg, owned since 1987. FAS 2.0 NA engine conversion in 2022.

[sciroccojim]

What a coincidence. I was thinking about this a couple of days ago.

My thought was this: why not modify the tank to connect like a barbecue 20 pounder does?? Change the mounting method so that it could be unscrewed easily, maybe with thumbscrews. That way, the tank can be 'hung' and connected when you take the camper on a trip and removed and stored outside afterwards.

I'm not crazy about storing the tank in my garage, insured or not.
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1987 Westy Camper

[Stephenmarklay]

I am thinking about keeping the Westy outside (in one of those soft cover carport things) and come winter purge the tank (two in my case) and store it in the garage.
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1985 Westfalia. Project 2017.

[Terry Kay]

As long as you don't have the houses gas hot water heater in the garage, you'll be good to go.

No big bang theory.
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T.K.

[sciroccojim]

[Terry Kay]

Door opener hangs from the ceiling joists, it doesn't lay on the floor where the propane will be.

Jesus, I had better get the acetylene out from under the overhead door opener that's been in the same spot along with the oxygen tank for 25 years.

Watch out for florescent lamp starters too.


Please.
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T.K.