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starter bushings,why not steel?
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blacktruck
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:05 am    Post subject: starter bushings,why not steel? Reply with quote

Just curious why the starter bushings are made of such a soft metal.
I just got through machining a steel adapter bushing to fit on my partial bellhousing(engine test rig).
Easy to make,seems like it'll work fine for the use but is there a reason
they weren't steel in the first place?
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Eric_S
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You always want dis-similar metals on friction surfaces to avoid galling. Brass and other copper alloys are soft, yes, but have a relatively low friction coefficient (for a metal). If you use a steel bushing to support the end of your starter, I promise it won't last long and will screw up your starter shaft too.
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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tye OE starter bushings probably also have a lubricant inpregnated into them to help them last longer as well.
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nightphorge
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cast iron on steel = really good. Steel on steel will work fine as long as there is a good layer of grease, but without the grease, they'll bond to each other.
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volksaddict
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the 12v trans to 6v starter conversion bushings are made of steel, They're so thin nothing else would work.
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gfw1985
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just put an autostick starter on and never worry about it again. Plus its higher torque.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric_S wrote:
You always want dis-similar metals on friction surfaces to avoid galling. Brass and other copper alloys are soft, yes, but have a relatively low friction coefficient (for a metal). If you use a steel bushing to support the end of your starter, I promise it won't last long and will screw up your starter shaft too.


X2

Say, how close to the flooded town is Sparks?


Last edited by KTPhil on Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jimmy111
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of those bearings are made from powdered bronze with additives such as graphite, teflon, Moly and others depending on the properties that they want. It is just filled into a mold and pressed at high pressure and out comes the finished bearing. Way in the past they added graphite directly to the molten metal and then sintered (burned) the bronze
Most oil pump gears are made in a similar way except with powdered steel. Very precice manufacturing process.
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nsracing
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A budding machinist? I suggest you read some metallurgy materials.

Steels do not make good bearing materials. Steel will weld itself to steel if they rub together. This is how friction-welding is done.

Bronzes and cast irons are good bearing materials. Steels are not.
Brass is relatively soft, but there are bronzes out there harder than steel.

IT is a bearing material if it will self-lubricate. Take for example cast iron Chevy heads. The are no valve guides at all. The "guides" are cast one-piece with the head. That is also why cast iron makes very good cylinder materials, or valve guides.

There are also other materials used for bearings... babbit, delrin and other exotic new stuff.

Peace.
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Steels do not make good bearing materials.


Humm. Maybe we should call Timkin, SKF, FAG, GKN, Hyatt Clark, Borg Warner and ther others and let them know.
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Jimmy111
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is right Joe. But perhaps the correct word should have been anti friction material. The bearings that you mentioned are mainly roller type bearings while the Bronce bushing is a sleve type bearing. They are used very widely in small electric motors and appliances. Just look at the main bearings in your motor.

Last edited by Jimmy111 on Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nsracing
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
Quote:
Steels do not make good bearing materials.


Humm. Maybe we should call Timkin, SKF, FAG, GKN, Hyatt Clark, Borg Warner and ther others and let them know.


Those are "roller bearings", Joe. Sorry, different cat.

Have you ever seen plain bearing that is steel???
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know he is right, but there has to be one @$$ in every thread, and it has been a while since my last turn.
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen a few, very few steel bearings in a Journal style, (journal bearing is the type when a moving surface slides across another stationary surface, ei starter bushing, main and rod bearings). Those bearing where in the process of being changed out for a brass, bronze style journal bearing. They do not make a good bearing when the sliding material is also steel, or for that matter, similar material.

I think the main objective is to have a softer bearing that will "sacrifice" itself for the moving object. Usually the moving object is much more expensive than the stationary objects bearing, (think crankshaft and bearing. I will replace the bearing and keep my crank instead of vice-versa). If designed correct, it is fairly easy to replace the stationary objects bearing, and cheaper also.
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Jimmy111
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the case of the starter bushing it is really just a matter of price. The bronze bushing costs only pennies and will last long enough to survive the warrenty period.
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to admit this, but back in high school when I was to poor to pay attention, I would remove the worn starter bushing, turn it 180* and reinstall it. This put the worn thrust side opposite and would work for a good while longer. If the bushing was to loose to stay, I would peen the outside lightly with a center punch to "increase" the OD to tighten it up enough to stay put.

Po folk have po ways.

Maybe this is the root to my "everything has to be new" issue.
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74bug
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lostinbaja wrote:
Tye OE starter bushings probably also have a lubricant inpregnated into them to help them last longer as well.


this is true, i can't remember the name of what these bronze bushings are made of, the ones impregnated with a lubricant, but they are.

also you have to consider that the starter is not continually turning, only when starting, so the bushing should last a long time.
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Jimmy111
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are probably thinking of Oilite Bronze bushings.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
I know he is right, but there has to be one @$$ in every thread, and it has been a while since my last turn.


I admire your honesty in admitting this, something few here do, myself included!
Laughing
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74bug
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy111 wrote:
You are probably thinking of Oilite Bronze bushings.


That's it, thanks, now i can go to sleep tonite. I hate when you can't remember something, like the name of a movie, ect... Laughing Cool
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