Squeaky front end suspension

aguabonita · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: Squeaky front end suspension

hey all,
When I hit a dip or bump (of almost any size or traveling at almost any speed) I get an audible squeak up front on the passenger side. Maybe it's more of a squeeshing sound. There is no clunking to my knowledge.

Am I to assume that this is an upper ball joint issue? Or do you folks think it's bushings to blame?

I have fairly new shocks so I don't think it's my shock.
Kevin
_________________
'87 Westfalia, GW 2.2, and some other goodies
'90 Volvo 245

kevtherev · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject:

Bush is a likely candidate....try some silicone spray/release/lube...or cockpit polish...or whatever you doodles call it Very Happy

for instant relief

Front upper wishbone bush...squeak means it's worn out

floggingmolly · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Squeaky front end suspension

tikibus · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject:

The most likely point is the upper control arm bushings.

Does it mean a complete overhaul or a simple squirt of "fix"?

When has your Vanagon been for a front end alignment?

When was the last time the anti-sway bars rubber bushings been replaced?

Are there signs of pulling to the L or R of the Vanagon?

My .02's is that the rubber bushings are toast all over.

Here is the test:

Park V and have a few good folk with you.
Test with your ear when the person(s) rock, jump, shake V.
Find the squeak.
This means No Beers to make a keen ear.
_________________
Happy Trails!
Mark
______________
Founding member of the Empire State VW Camping Club.
http://www.empirevwcamping.org/
1984 Westy - Tiki
1997 Honda Civic -The Green Hornet
1971 Volvo P-1800E- needs TLC

aguabonita · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject:

Right, well I don't seem to be swaying all over and the alignment seems good to me.

I guess what i'm most worried about is whether it is a ball joint. From what I understand (which is very little Rolling Eyes

) if one of those fails it could be bad, very bad indeed.

So how do you know whether it's a ball joint, because if it is a ball joint i'll get it replaced quickly? If it's a bushing I figure I can wait a bit.
Kev
_________________
'87 Westfalia, GW 2.2, and some other goodies
'90 Volvo 245

riceye · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:35 am Post subject:

Vanagons tend to wear the upper bj's, and not the lowers. The painless procedure to replace the upper bj's involves releasing the upper control arm from the spindle (where the ubj resides). At this point, you have the upper control arm just about off the vehicle.

I say do both, upper control arm bushings and upper ball joints, then get her aligned. Get the Febi bushings (as per Loogy). See rockauto.com.

Salud!
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig

hiram6 · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:38 am Post subject:

riceye · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:09 am Post subject:

Check the Bentley, but I don't remember having to compress the spring to replace the ubj's, and the shock stays put. Jack up the front and support with stands under the body, not the lower control arm. All the pressure should be off the upper control arm.

There are two socket head capscrews holding the control arm to the ball joint. Clean them up well before torquing on them with an Allen wrench. After releasing the ball joint, just remove the upper control arm shaft, and the upper control arm is ripe for the picking. Be sure to keep all the parts in their original location wrt right and left.
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig

Christopher Schimke · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject:

hiram6 · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject:

Cool, I'm ordering the bushings from rockauto today. I'm sure their inventory turns on this specific item have increased dramatically in the last few days!
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning.

captainpartytime · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject:

I'm getting new tires next week on my '82 diesel westy w/o power steering. I had planned on getting an alignment and then replacing the UBJ, Control Arm Bushing, Tie Rod Ends, Sway Bars, Wheel Bearings. It sounds like I should replace all the mechanical stuff first and then get the alignment. Does this seem correct?
_________________
-Kerry

1982 turbo diesel Westfalia

tencentlife · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject:

Yes. Always get an alignment after replacing wheels, tires, or suspension components. Never before.
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

aguabonita · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject:

Well,
I will definitely replace my upper control arm bushings. It sounds as though these are the most common to give out. I squirted them with some Liquid Wrench to no avail. Oh well.

What about those ball joints though? I still don't know how to tell if those should be switched out. Those seem like more of a pain from what i've read and i've already spent a bunch on the Van in the past couple months. I do want to be safe though so if need be...

Stupid van. I love her but...
Kevin
_________________
'87 Westfalia, GW 2.2, and some other goodies
'90 Volvo 245

Christopher Schimke · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject:

smithnt · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject:

I had a similar noise on my '84 westy, and the bushings fixed it. I replaced the upper ball joint at the same time, then broke the lower two weeks later. I replaced all of the rubber components, ball joints, and tierods in the front suspension and my van felt so much better. You can get it close by marking the eccentric bolt, but with new bushings, and ball joints it is going to need an alignment.

tencentlife · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:39 am Post subject:

I think two problems are slowly being conflated here. Squeaking upper control arm bushings does not mean that they are worn out. That determination is made by looking at how the spindle is centered in the bushing, as shown in Bentley. The squeaking is another problem but is not a symptom of imminent bushing failure.

I've had my van for ten years and in that time I've put 140k miles on it, including a lot of off-road exploring in addition to the 3 miles of torture it has to endure daily just to get in and out of my residence. The bushings have squeaked the entire time. The spindles are nonetheless dead on center. The rig has gone thru several sets of tires in that time, which wore evenly, and has been aligned every time it gets new rubber. The alignments haven't required more than the slightest adjustments; my alignment shop issues a before/after sheet of the figures, and the before figures are always basically in range.

When I bought it it had torn UBJ boots, so I replaced the joints. Very easy. I also replaced the wheel bearings, and the track rod bushings both sides because I thought those were the cause of the squeaking. Obviously they weren't. Those UBJ boots tore in a short time, and I just last year finally put on two new UBJ's.

The upper bushings are still perfectly centered, and they still sound like a bag o' rats.
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

allsierra123 · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:50 am Post subject:

are the bushiongs soft rubber or are they a poly bushing? I had the same squeeks in a jetta some years back and I replaced the soft rubber with a poly kit and never had them again.
_________________
95 GMC Yukon 6.5 TD 2 Door Tow pig/ Daily driver.
91 Vanagon GL. 1.9TD Conversion Sold
81 Vw rabbit 1.6 Diesel. Sold

tikibus · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject:

Tencentlife is right...

Hate to say it... Cool

Here is my skinny of the squeak. The other post I led you to have at least 3 persons to push down on the front suspension. One on the front bumper, the other two to be at Drivers side and Passenger side.
You say push down. Your UNDER the Vanagon. Listen. Hence, no Beers. Track the Squeak.

The Vanagon doesn't veer L or R. Doesn't "clunk" with a stout bump to the suspension. The Upper and Lower Ball Joints won't let you know there F-ed until it is too late.

My .02's is this. Replace all rubber. Yup. If the Squeak is that uproarious to the point of pulling hair out of your head...

I live with mine. Whaa you say????

Replaced all the front rubber and it still squeaks. I did it. Still Squeaks!
Arrgh! I feel like the Charlie Brown of Vanagons.

Sometimes, ya just gotta do the job and it still drives you mad that it does what it does, just to let YOU know that your not the Master of Be All.
_________________
Happy Trails!
Mark
______________
Founding member of the Empire State VW Camping Club.
http://www.empirevwcamping.org/
1984 Westy - Tiki
1997 Honda Civic -The Green Hornet
1971 Volvo P-1800E- needs TLC

aguabonita · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject:


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