Are all Ball Joints Created Equal?

[hans j]

Thanks Chris! I found this comparison today and it should shed some light on what is going on:
http://www.wagenswest.com/how_to/bus_vanagon_ball_comparison.php

I'd say if you have a smooth steel cap, it's going to wear out very fast! Look for the ones that look like cast or machined steel.

I checked the TRW LBJ we have, cast cap.

So it looks like the only good ball joints to use are Lemfoerdor, Moog, and TRW.

edit: After reading the thread for the third or fourth time, I realized the link I posted was already here! Hopefully linking the photo with it will help others (not me apparently) in finding quality lower ball joints.
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[hans j]

Skip the TRW's... The syncro I installed them on already has 1-2mm of play in both of them after less then one week and a couple hundred miles at most.
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[Escorial Syncro]

[specialev]

Does anyone have a source for the circlip /retainer for the lbj? I just picked up some new moog lbjs (amazon prime had both upper and lower) and I find that the old ones went into the bin. I must have thought they'd be included with the new part. Thanks.

[hans j]

[Hodakaguy]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but make sure you pull the boot on ANY brand of new ball joint and check the grease, many of the brands come with VERY little grease and will contribute to early failure. Make sure you pack the joints full of good grease before putting them in service!

Factory grease as found in a Febi joint...pathetic! About a finger tips worth of grease, It's no wonder people don't get many miles out of these. If your using these joints ADD Grease!

And factory grease in the Lemforder, fully packed like it should be!

Showing the better range of motion of the Lemforder joints, Lemforder in the rear and Febi in the front.

Here's a link to my build thread showing the factory grease in some of the ball joints.

Info here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=802924&page=21

And here showing the better quality of the Lemforder joints: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20850470

Hodakaguy
_________________
My Syncro Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=517384

My Unimog Build: https://advrider.com/f/threads/meet-the-trotn-turtle-unimog-u1300l-build.1143869/

My Tacoma Builds: https://advrider.com/f/threads/hodakaguys-overland-tacoma-builds-on-to-new-adventures.1274770/

My 4wd Sprinter Build here:https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9334401#9334401

[dobryan]

I replaced my ball joonts a few months ago but did not regrease. CAn this be done with them installed?
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[hans j]

[dobryan]

Sounds like a plan to me.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[specialev]

[JPrato]

Rock Auto is carrying upper and lower Lemforder ball joints right now for Vanagons. A little pricey at $52.79 and $40.79 respectively but hey, it's the good stuff!

http://www.rockauto.com/
_________________
Joe

87 Syncro Tin Top project
84 Westy, 2.5L Subaru power
06 Subaru 2.5 turbo in waiting
46 Cessna 140

[greebly]

[andersonj]

Has anyone used or heard of the "german" Hans Pries topran ball joints?

[AtlasShrugged]

[cmayna]

This is a very good thread. Lots of info. Sounds like I might go with Moog or Lemforder.
_________________
'90 Westy / automatic.
If I'm not working on the camper or my '50 Chebbie truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.


Craig

[Sodo]

Great pics by WagensWest http://www.wagenswest.com/how_to/bus_vanagon_ball_comparison.php

I have these Moog Lemforders (from T3Technique.com). I think I'm going to add grease fittings. I'll drill it like this, and use the press-in fittings. I ordered them frrom McMaster-Carr, $4 for 10 fittings. I hope they don't come out.

That top cap is steel. I'll pound one into a test hole and yank on it, see how well they hold. I have modern grease guns, but if someone else put one of those "permanent" grease couplings onto it might yank it out.

The general plan is drill until the tip almost breaks thru. Then pierce the thin steel with a sharp point, leaving the metal bits attached to the hole. Not sure this can be done but I will try; for the sport of it. I highly doubt metal shavings from the drill could damage this interface anyway. This joint is worn by stone. Dirt type abrasives. The simple fact that new grease expels the dirt has to be a million times better than not. After the rubber boots fail (after their few engineered years of service) then I'll tie a sock around it and remember to grease it more often.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Abyss]

as of 2019 - I hear Lemforder - Moog has now stopped making these in Germany, and are now made in China, but that typically the quality has dropped and these are now the go-to ball joints? Other than old stock and greasing other poor brands, what is the go now?

[Sodo]

I bet any ball joint is good enough if kept clean and lubed. Probably once they go dry is when the good outlast the bad.
But if you never let them go dry.....(and boots not cracked) they all "should" run a long time.

Main concerns seem to be:

1) insufficient grease inside when new (by mfr)
2) boots that may fall apart too soon
3) no re-lubrication method

4) I saw some pics showing Febi brand offering "lesser articulation" than the Moog Lemfoerder.

Anyway you can solve most of these problems by drilling a hole and needle-greasing the joint when new. Then cover the hole with silicone. Then it's easy to periodically renew grease from time to time. But you must have a strategy to avoid over-inflating the boot, because boot failure is a huge problem.

Probably the best way is to really pack the joint+boot full of synthetic grease when it's new, taking care to purge excess grease such that when the taper is inserted, the boot doesn't slide back and "become overinflated" at installation. Then you can relax, until 30k mi, or 50k miles you re-grease while paying attention to the boot inflation issue.

I added grease fittings to my ball-joints, but on second thought have concluded that's not the right way. Because somebody could just pump them full and over-inflate the boots, which are NOT designed for greasing. Whereas with the PLEWS needle-greaser method:

1) you get them full of grease in the beginning and they will probably run a full 100k miles or maybe 200k.
2) at 50k mi, since you're now retired etc, nothing else to do....you can dig out the silicone and re-grease carefully, paying attention to the boots, perhaps even replacing them.

Anyway here's a cross-link to another thread with some pics and discussion.
Vanagon Ball Joints - HOW TO add grease zerk fittings (new MOOG)

Sorry I don't know the current answer to the "go-to ball joint brand". In the USA T3Technique still lists german Moog units in stock.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[ALIKA T3]

The UBJ from Lemförder have moved to China, lowers and Moog are still German to this day, but for how long?

Meyle is pure garbage, Febi as well. I collect a lot of them at the shop, the last Febi were 9,000 miles, 2 years. A shit load of play.

What happens is no matter the brand, the boots are crappy rubber and prolly chinese, so that's what kills them like Sodo pointed above.

Quite a few people know my work with silicone and PU to put out good products on the market.

I'm testing polyurethane boots on old factory tie rod ends, so far so good.

I will prolly invest in the molds soon, tests are very promising!!

_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[vwhammer]

To be brutally honest, I can't remember the last time I have ever changed a ball joint or tie rod end more than once on anything I have ever owned no matter what brand of joint I got or where it came from.
Perhaps I don't keep my cars as long.

ya might steer clear (no pun intended) of the generic 5 dollar tie rod ends and ball joints that you can find at Rockauto but, in my opinion, any of the mid priced units have worked fine for me and friends of mine.

We don't get too hung up on making sure all our crap is OEM, German made and all that.

Friend of mine has a MK4 Jetta with 340,000 miles that is practically a rolling Rockauto catalog and about the only time he has to replace a part ahead of a normal replacement time frame is when he crashes.
Its a commuter/autocross/track day/mountain twisty car.
He's pretty hard on it.