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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5390
Location: PNW
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 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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| vwhammer wrote: |
ya might steer clear (no pun intended) of the generic 5 dollar tie rod ends and ball joints that you can find at Rockauto but, in my opinion, any of the mid priced units have worked fine for me and friends of mine.
We don't get too hung up on making sure all our crap is OEM, German made and all that.
Friend of mine has a MK4 Jetta with 340,000 miles that is practically a rolling Rockauto catalog and about the only time he has to replace a part ahead of a normal replacement time frame is when he crashes.
Its a commuter/autocross/track day/mountain twisty car.
He's pretty hard on it. |
A Vanagon ball joint is completely different in function than a Jetta/Golf ball joint. The Jetta/Golf ball joint you described sees very little vertical load whereas a Vanagon ball joint see a huge vertical load. In fact, a Vanagon ball joint has to carry the entire corner load of the van. Due to the strut design of the Jetta/Golf you described, the ball joint sees most of its vertical load from the anti-roll bar and never sees anything close to the entire corner load of the vehicle. It's apples to oranges...and there's a reason that Vanagon owners are concerned. When an owner has to pay a shop to replace a ball joint and that joint lasts less than a few thousand miles, which is exactly what happens with the lower quality lower ball joints mentioned in this thread, there's good reason to choose your ball joints wisely.
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"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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YVwhammer, you'd better be knocking on wood as I believe your good luck is not the norm. I had one van on jack stands for a couple of months while doing a bunch of work on it. One of the first things I did was replace an upper ball joint. The boot cracked with zero miles on it before I even got it off the jack stands.  |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
| vwhammer wrote: |
ya might steer clear (no pun intended) of the generic 5 dollar tie rod ends and ball joints that you can find at Rockauto but, in my opinion, any of the mid priced units have worked fine for me and friends of mine.
We don't get too hung up on making sure all our crap is OEM, German made and all that.
Friend of mine has a MK4 Jetta with 340,000 miles that is practically a rolling Rockauto catalog and about the only time he has to replace a part ahead of a normal replacement time frame is when he crashes.
Its a commuter/autocross/track day/mountain twisty car.
He's pretty hard on it. |
A Vanagon ball joint is completely different in function than a Jetta/Golf ball joint. The Jetta/Golf ball joint you described sees very little vertical load whereas a Vanagon ball joint see a huge vertical load. In fact, a Vanagon ball joint has to carry the entire corner load of the van. Due to the strut design of the Jetta/Golf you described, the ball joint sees most of its vertical load from the anti-roll bar and never sees anything close to the entire corner load of the vehicle. It's apples to oranges...and there's a reason that Vanagon owners are concerned. When an owner has to pay a shop to replace a ball joint and that joint lasts less than a few thousand miles, which is exactly what happens with the lower quality lower ball joints mentioned in this thread, there's good reason to choose your ball joints wisely. |
Thanks for that Chris. That's a very astute observation that I hadn't thought about before. Yup, with the vanagon, the spring pushes on the lower control arm so most of the weight of that corner of the vehicle is pushing on the ball joint all the time. In contrast, the jetta has the strut (with spring above) pinched into the steering knuckle so basically none of the weight of the vehicle pushes on the ball joint and the ball joint and lower control arm are just hanging out unless the sway bar is pushing on them. |
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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1895
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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My upper joints were replaced with meyle or febi a few years ago, I just noticed I basically have no boots left, completely shredded. So I bought some lemforders.
What isn't made in China in a German box these days?
I just hope the boots last more than a few years.
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6345
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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I think I posted somewhere about thesea few months back.
They seem ok, the lower ones are still made in Germany, but for how long?
For the boots, keep dreaming 
I bought a few urethane boots to try but didn`t fit well enough, from obscur cars.
I have urethane boots for the tie rod ends, I got a company willing to mix molds from other customers and we made a few of them kinda in stealth mode. They`re great, no failure so far nor signs of aging on all the vans I mounted them on. Only positive feedback from the few people who bouht them for themselves.
I`m saving cash to afford a mold for the cv boots, stock size, next is the ball joint boots...
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Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1895
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
I think I posted somewhere about thesea few months back.
I`m saving cash to afford a mold for the cv boots, stock size, next is the ball joint boots... |
Sweet, Thanks Alex. Keep us informed!
At least the "Lemforders" I purchased were only $9 each on FCP Euro.
Paul
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
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Wellington
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1884
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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We can now add MOOG lower ball joints to the pile of trash.
I ordered some and they arrived with a stamped steel end plate just like the rest of the garbage available.
I called Moog to inquire on the change, the gentleman informed me that Moog does not manufacture this model, and buy it from a third party and resell it. |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9796
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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My lower ball joints were fine but the boots had failed. For all the reasons above I was reluctant to install new, possibly inferior, parts -- so I just replaced the boots using a 'universal' polyurethane boot:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CN5F14/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I packed them full of grease and so far (not quite a year) all seems well, i.e. they keep the grease in and the dirt out:
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10366
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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| Ahwahnee wrote: |
-- so I just replaced the boots using a 'universal' polyurethane boot:
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Nice. Awesome tip.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2316
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| Ahwahnee wrote: |
-- so I just replaced the boots using a 'universal' polyurethane boot:
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Nice. Awesome tip. |
Indeed, much appreciated.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22633
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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| Franklinstower wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
I think I posted somewhere about thesea few months back.
I`m saving cash to afford a mold for the cv boots, stock size, next is the ball joint boots... |
Sweet, Thanks Alex. Keep us informed!
At least the "Lemforders" I purchased were only $9 each on FCP Euro.
Paul |
And replacements are almost free...
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.ssS! |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6817
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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I just received a pair of the made in Germany Lower Ball Joints with the cast steel bottoms.
These are being sold on eBay through the Pep Boys Store and labeled MOOG "K9111"
I just compared it to the Lemfoerder and it is the same 48mm dia.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOOG-Suspension-Ball-Join...d=76620059
Moog Lower Ball Joint K9111
Unfortunately, they are $51.00.
There is another eBay store that is showing the right picture, but they ship out a steel pressed in bottom ball joint.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ball-Joint-Front-Lower-fo...06f6440a2d
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Last edited by Steve M. on Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4756
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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watch the shipping... $30!!
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Mac_Daddy_Westy
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2011
Posts: 154
Location: San Antonio, Tx
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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actually, shipping is about $16.05 with discount
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'87 Westy with 2.5 Subi (auto trans) |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6817
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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The Pep Boys ebay store says "Free 4 Day Shipping"...they just charge you $52.00 to cover the shipping cost!
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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smeeegheeead
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2021
Posts: 48
Location: Portland, OR
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6817
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Find out who chissync is who reviewed them! Maybe they're a Samba member!
I'm going to be pissed if they are that price! 
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16853
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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https://www.google.com/search?q=misofad+review&...nt=gws-wiz
looks like they are a scam site.
either way...i have paid 800+ for a control arm in the past. 80 bux for a GOOD part is a deal in my book
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6817
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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Yes, but you can get it for less. See my links above.
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16853
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Are all Ball Joints Created Equal? |
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i saw that.
i'm going to call NAPA and see what they can do for me. i have a new set in there now, but i don't have high hopes
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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