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Vans in the Snow
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

My only previous "van-in-the-snow" picture is from a few years back, with the van well into a winter's hibernation...

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So here's my most recent relevant post (self-quoting from the "What your van did" thread)...
-----------------
SUNDAY 4/26/20 - 1:00 PM...mini road trip "Up North" (to "blow some stink off" as grandma used to say)... Laughing

1:30 PM...scoped out nearest local USFS campground, although I'd never been there with snow on the ground...

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Encountered a minor inconvenience around the next corner (looks worse than it was)...

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2:00 PM... wisely stopped before snow got too deep, but backing up caused me to slide to the ditch... Shocked
At most the snow was only 8-10" deep, but but at 55°F ambient it was decidedly slushy, slippery, and solid ice underneath...

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3:00 PM...after a liesurely trail lunch (and to think this through), I put into use my trusty recovery gear...

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4:00 PM: Out and about once more, aired up from recovery mode and prepared to hit the trail again...

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4:30 PM: No chance of checking out the next camp site... Evil or Very Mad ...

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...so moved on to another "rest" area (ground still pretty frozen, so I brought my own bucket) Wink ...

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5:00 PM: No moose to be seen, although at one point there was fresh tracks on the road for about 1/2 mile...

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5:30 PM: spent some time making practice passes through a slightly muddy section...

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6:00 PM: finally turned for home & took a few more photo ops...

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8:00 PM: Home before dark, late supper & a drinky-poo by the firepit... Cool

- Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

I had fun experimenting with chains and the Peloquin 2WD in the Idaho panhandle yesterday. While not unstoppable, I was impressed with how the van would just crawl through pretty deep snow with the chains. It was about 38 degrees so the snow was wet.

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Returning to Idaho after taking this forest service road into WA for a bit...
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

Nice! Were you up north of Nordman? I ask because they pull a barrier across that road eventually for the rest of the winter and I suggested yesterday that we drive up there and see if we could still get through.

I've also been impressed what snow the Vanagon will drive through with chains. Particularly that it will lose forward momentum and get stuck, then pull itself back, then go forward and make a foot or two progress and so on. Most RWDs seem like if they're stuck in one direction they won't make progress the other direction. This is true with studded snow tires as well without chains. If you just keep going back and forth you will be surprised.

Here I am in Idaho screwing around with the chains on and studded winter Coopers on the side of the house. The front end is pushing into about 18" of snow where the snowblower deposits it, so it's like cement and treacherous. But with a fully locked LandCruiser 10 feet away it was a great chance to see what the Van would do. By the way, for our tiny 14" rims I found the small rubber chain tensioners for garden tractors work the best. With car rims going to 15, then 16, now 18 and 20 these auto tensioners sold for cars have gotten too large. I found mine at North 40 but have since seen them wherever tractor supplies are sold - farm and ranch type stores.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

IdahoDoug wrote:
Nice! Were you up north of Nordman? I ask because they pull a barrier across that road eventually for the rest of the winter and I suggested yesterday that we drive up there and see if we could still get through.



That's exactly where I was. I naively hoped that I'd be able to make it to the Canadian border but we had a good snow two weeks ago and it's been snowing in the hills since. I made it a few miles past the first ID/WA border on NF-302 and did not make it to the second ID/WA border crossing on NF-1013, I turned around before the Roosevelt Grove of Ancient Cedars.
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Abscate wrote:
Do not get killed, do not kill others.


Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
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old_man
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

I just bought a pair of chains but haven't used them yes. Similar set up. 2WD + Peloquin. Would you ever consider putting chains on all 4 corners or is that pointless?
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:31 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

I think the degree condition change that would make you want 4 chains from 2 chains is narrower than the condition change from good tires being adequate to needing the first two chains. In other words, it may take a lot of snow or deterioration in weather and road condition to prompt you to put on 2 chains. But not much more deterioration to want 4 chains. And if you're out exploring in the backcountry versus pushing on in very bad weather on paved roads, that can happen merely over a north facing hill where the backside is an icy descent. So if doing what Jim is doing above - solo vehicle exploration and needing to chain up - I'd have a second set of chains on board.
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Jake de Villiers
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

You don't really want chains on the steering wheels.
I found chains to be very helpful when I had an open diff. With the Peloquin and real winter tires, the van just keeps on going.
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pnwkayaker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

This last comment actually draw my attention, so I'd like to hear more about this, specially with regards to winter driving, and drawback of putting chains in the front wheels.

My current situation: Syncro Westy (with rear locker) with 16" CLK wheels and Nokian Rotiiva AT 225/70R-16 tires. These are all-season tires and approved for winter use. Due to their size, the rear tires almost touch the weld lip on the rear trailing arms, so close that there's no space to put any cable chains in them.

So far, I've taken the Syncro on moderate snow in Seattle with no problems, but I was always worried about potentially getting stuck, so I have a set of cable chains, with plans to put them in the front tires if the need arise (plenty of space to put them).

Is this a wrong approach? What could go wrong? Anything that I should careful with in case I put the chains in the front wheels? Any input will be appreciated.

Jake de Villiers wrote:
You don't really want chains on the steering wheels.
I found chains to be very helpful when I had an open diff. With the Peloquin and real winter tires, the van just keeps on going.

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gertiebob
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

pnwkayaker wrote:

My current situation: Syncro Westy (with rear locker) with 16" CLK wheels and Nokian Rotiiva AT 225/70R-16 tires. These are all-season tires and approved for winter use. Due to their size, the rear tires almost touch the weld lip on the rear trailing arms, so close that there's no space to put any cable chains in them.

Hey, I have the same tire situation. Not same wheels but same tires and same close clearance at the trailing arm flange! Never thought about chains. Now you give me something else to worry about.

Funny, but I actually had rims with what I thought was an "incorrect" offset and swapped for these. D'oh!!

I figure I could 1. get spacers for the rear wheels, which is what some folks seem to do anyway, and 2. grind the trailing arm flange at the one small area where interference would occur.

My other worry would be interference here if airing down, which I do from time to time on Utah desert trips.

PS: mine is a Syncro, too but I do not think I would put chains on the front only. Not for long anyway. Would to dig out of being stuck, though.

Cheers!
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Californio
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

I have a related question that might belong in the dumbass questions thread. I have a Syncro Westfalia with rear locker and 15" BFG AT tires in good condition. Would it help to add chains or cables in an extreme snow situation or is that a waste of time?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

Californio wrote:
I have a related question that might belong in the dumbass questions thread. I have a Syncro Westfalia with rear locker and 15" BFG AT tires in good condition. Would it help to add chains or cables in an extreme snow situation or is that a waste of time?


Ha! We have had that same sort of question about our AWD Subaru. Seems like there are as many different opinions as there are commenters.

Syncros are AWD so, it seems to me, that you really don't want to run cables/chains unless on all 4 wheels. Not for any distance anyway. I have a de-coupler so I could run them on the rear while de-coupled but why? Also you would need to really check your clearances for cables/chains with bigger wheels/tires.

From dumbass answerer with MAS.
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Jake de Villiers
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

pnwkayaker wrote:
This last comment actually draw my attention, so I'd like to hear more about this, specially with regards to winter driving, and drawback of putting chains in the front wheels.

My current situation: Syncro Westy (with rear locker) with 16" CLK wheels and Nokian Rotiiva AT 225/70R-16 tires. These are all-season tires and approved for winter use. Due to their size, the rear tires almost touch the weld lip on the rear trailing arms, so close that there's no space to put any cable chains in them.

So far, I've taken the Syncro on moderate snow in Seattle with no problems, but I was always worried about potentially getting stuck, so I have a set of cable chains, with plans to put them in the front tires if the need arise (plenty of space to put them).

Is this a wrong approach? What could go wrong? Anything that I should careful with in case I put the chains in the front wheels? Any input will be appreciated.

Jake de Villiers wrote:
You don't really want chains on the steering wheels.
I found chains to be very helpful when I had an open diff. With the Peloquin and real winter tires, the van just keeps on going.
We used to have a '66 F-100 up at Sunshine Valley and used four wheel chains to reach some cabins in the winter. It was great at climbing but both braking and steering really suffered from the on/off traction of the chains.
If I can climb hills with a foot of wet snow on them with 2wd and a Peloquin...
I highly recommend the Continental ExtremeWinterContact tires - mine are 225/55R16
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

More "snow's on the van" than "Vans in the Snow" but it's nice to get a little moisture around here.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

^^^ A high-top sure can give a false impression of more snow than there actually is... Very Happy
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Abscate wrote:
Do not get killed, do not kill others.


Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

A day in the desert southwest leaves you with no clue how much snow there is. As usual Im surprised to see these pics of the snowy northern states. Looks beautiful folks. Stay warm and safe. Thanks for keeping me updated as to the passing of the seasons.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

AZ Landshaper wrote:
A day in the desert southwest leaves you with no clue how much snow there is. As usual Im surprised to see these pics of the snowy northern states. Looks beautiful folks. Stay warm and safe. Thanks for keeping me updated as to the passing of the seasons.


29 and snowing yesterday, 55 and sunny in my back yard this morning. I love Colorado.
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'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

So, Jim - to your post before Thanksgiving on road 302. Our daughter was in town over Thanksgiving and requested a hike and/or adventure every day she was home. We went up the 302 and made it 25 miles north of Nordman in our 1993 Toyota LandCruiser. All tracks ceased at mile 20 with snow at 12" and we kept going as I had shovels for one and all in the truck and spanking new 285 BFG A/Ts. We finally got stuck after a few miles of climbing through those hairpins in 18" of untracked snow.

I'd show a picture but rules, I guess. We put burritos on the exhaust manifold to warm, and left her buried in the snow while we hiked on up to an overlook to watch the sun set on a stellar landscape of fresh snow in the mountains. Upon return, I locked up all 3 differentials and she drove out of the stuck UPHILL far enough I could get her straightened out to back down. While flailing unlocked, the rear suddenly slewed toward the ditch as I got stuck, so I couldn't back down. Then I made a 47-point turn and we drove back down the mountain, stopping for a 1 hour night hike about 3 miles back. It was epic.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

Idaho Doug would be the one reason I would move to N.Idaho..
swmbo is the one reason I wouldn't, she just doesn't find fun or tranquility in those things.
I nominate Doug as my spirit brother, oddly enough though, I already have an (estranged) brother named Doug

IdahoDoug wrote:
So, Jim - to your post before Thanksgiving on road 302. Our daughter was in town over Thanksgiving and requested a hike and/or adventure every day she was home. We went up the 302 and made it 25 miles north of Nordman in our 1993 Toyota LandCruiser. All tracks ceased at mile 20 with snow at 12" and we kept going as I had shovels for one and all in the truck and spanking new 285 BFG A/Ts. We finally got stuck after a few miles of climbing through those hairpins in 18" of untracked snow.

I'd show a picture but rules, I guess. We put burritos on the exhaust manifold to warm, and left her buried in the snow while we hiked on up to an overlook to watch the sun set on a stellar landscape of fresh snow in the mountains. Upon return, I locked up all 3 differentials and she drove out of the stuck UPHILL far enough I could get her straightened out to back down. While flailing unlocked, the rear suddenly slewed toward the ditch as I got stuck, so I couldn't back down. Then I made a 47-point turn and we drove back down the mountain, stopping for a 1 hour night hike about 3 miles back. It was epic.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

Holy cow! That sounds spectacular. So much of N. Idaho just disappears behind a barrier of snow for the winter. You pierced it farther than I can imagine.

And meals warmed on the manifold are how I ate warm food as a cab driver 30 years ago. Leftover lasagna was the best.

Sounds like a wonderful family trip.

Thanks for sharing a good day.

IdahoDoug wrote:
So, Jim - to your post before Thanksgiving on road 302. Our daughter was in town over Thanksgiving and requested a hike and/or adventure every day she was home. We went up the 302 and made it 25 miles north of Nordman in our 1993 Toyota LandCruiser. All tracks ceased at mile 20 with snow at 12" and we kept going as I had shovels for one and all in the truck and spanking new 285 BFG A/Ts. We finally got stuck after a few miles of climbing through those hairpins in 18" of untracked snow.

I'd show a picture but rules, I guess. We put burritos on the exhaust manifold to warm, and left her buried in the snow while we hiked on up to an overlook to watch the sun set on a stellar landscape of fresh snow in the mountains. Upon return, I locked up all 3 differentials and she drove out of the stuck UPHILL far enough I could get her straightened out to back down. While flailing unlocked, the rear suddenly slewed toward the ditch as I got stuck, so I couldn't back down. Then I made a 47-point turn and we drove back down the mountain, stopping for a 1 hour night hike about 3 miles back. It was epic.

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Abscate wrote:
Do not get killed, do not kill others.


Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Vans in the Snow Reply with quote

jimf909 wrote:


And meals warmed on the manifold are how I ate warm food as a cab driver 30 years ago. Leftover lasagna was the best.



Yeah, it's a bummer the Vanagon manifold is a pita to get to compared to just popping the hood!
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