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The13bats
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2006
Posts: 297
Location: Eustis
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 Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| The13bats wrote: |
| so i plan to use 85w/90 hypoid gl4 sta-lube, im hunting the best price on a gallon, and cant wait to get her going again |
I haven't bought any in a while but I either got it from the local NAPA or from Amazon.
Amazon search gave me this:
https://www.amazon.com/CRC-Sta-Lube-SL24239-Multi-Purpose-Hypoid/dp/B000M8RYMC/
Having the little hand pump that screws on top is nice too.
You can see it listed on the Amazon "People bought this too" listings they have on that item above.
I don't have the one they list there but I do have one of those pumps |
yep, it appears you are absolutely correct...napa and Amazon, thats it,
i called pep, orielys, autozone, advanced, talked to 5 techs between them i was told engine oil is same as gear oil, i was told they dont carry any gear oil or only engine gear oil, etc
in the end none carry it or can get it, contrast to the crc site listing them,
i will call napa tomorrow, or its Amazon and wait. all to be a purist when im the furthest thing from it.
thanks all,
cheers
b
edit: update, napa that carries it is 20 miles from me and 15.00 more than Amazon so its mail order for me.
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| ..... started specifically specifying Mil-1-2105 (GL-4) for the '74 model year and continued to do so through the end of the boxer run with the '91 Vanagon, a period of 18 years. |
And thus we have the reason why the vast majority of 091/094 gearbox cores have worn out ring & pinions.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| The13bats wrote: |
i called valvoline tech, and he said there is no "modern" GL5 that doesnt have the nasties that do eat yellow metal and if the bottle says for non synchros then yes, it will eat the yellow metal, period. |
I guess you believe Valvoline has purchased and tested every gear oil in existence in the world?
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| ..... started specifically specifying Mil-1-2105 (GL-4) for the '74 model year and continued to do so through the end of the boxer run with the '91 Vanagon, a period of 18 years. |
And thus we have the reason why the vast majority of 091/094 gearbox cores have worn out ring & pinions. |
Thus the reason no one ever can find a worn out set to take a picture of to post here.  |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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There are additives broadly called "friction modifiers" which can enhance OR prevent slip-stick behavior. there are additives that can make the syncros grab stronger, or grab weaker......and yes in some cases once that stuff is in there it won't easily rinse out.
It does not necessarily have to do with the gl-whatever ratings.
You will have to read the label, or ask if it's suitable for use in a syncro transmission.
OEM recommended stuff is probably MORE likely to be right, but also more likely to be expensive too.
at 15$ a quart there better be some magic smooth shifting voo-doo in here!
And you can be sure they'll never tell you what it is either! But it's true. |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| ..... started specifically specifying Mil-1-2105 (GL-4) for the '74 model year and continued to do so through the end of the boxer run with the '91 Vanagon, a period of 18 years. |
And thus we have the reason why the vast majority of 091/094 gearbox cores have worn out ring & pinions. |
Thus the reason no one ever can find a worn out set to take a picture of to post here. |
So now you're trying to tell the world that Mike at Rancho and Dave at Folt's don't know a worn out R&P when they see one?
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| ..... started specifically specifying Mil-1-2105 (GL-4) for the '74 model year and continued to do so through the end of the boxer run with the '91 Vanagon, a period of 18 years. |
And thus we have the reason why the vast majority of 091/094 gearbox cores have worn out ring & pinions. |
Thus the reason no one ever can find a worn out set to take a picture of to post here. |
So now you're trying to tell the world that Mike at Rancho and Dave at Folt's don't know a worn out R&P when they see one? |
It should be easy for you to get lots and lots of pictures if this is happening as often as you claim, maybe several new ones each week for years on end. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| modok wrote: |
There are additives broadly called "friction modifiers" which can enhance OR prevent slip-stick behavior. there are additives that can make the syncros grab stronger, or grab weaker......and yes in some cases once that stuff is in there it won't easily rinse out.
It does not necessarily have to do with the gl-whatever ratings.
You will have to read the label, or ask if it's suitable for use in a syncro transmission.
OEM recommended stuff is probably MORE likely to be right, but also more likely to be expensive too.
at 15$ a quart there better be some magic smooth shifting voo-doo in here!
And you can be sure they'll never tell you what it is either! But it's true. |
At last...someone else who understands that there is more chemistry...not to mention electrochemistry (metallic element polarity) and PH issues.... to this than just viscosity.
I remember back in the late 80's and 90's a good amount of people (mostly truck based in mentality)...were pushing concoctions like Dow gear guard with graphite and MDS as an answer for rough running full hypoid gear sets.
Once you get that into certain transmissions.....depending on actual synchro DESIGN...the synchros may never work again because they get far too slick...for their surface contact area...AND for their contact angle...AND for the amount of free float before contact they run with.. And getting that lubricating material out of a brass alloy synchro ...can be impossible.
Does this mean it was a bad chemical?....not for something with steel lined/faced synchros...or synchros as big as my wrist.
More to it than just the GL rating.
By the way...be happy with $15 a quart!  The modern VW, Porsche Audi and other manual transmissions....these days...are requiring oils that run 3 times that per quart and require change intervals in the 30-40k range.
I just changed my Golf 6 manual trans oil in September of 2018. The dealer spec'd oil (which has changed spec 3 times over 5 years)...and is never in stock....is about $25 a liter. I used two liters of GM synchromesh friction modified at about $63 for two liters. 
But...its smooth has butter. Ray |
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EvilleT
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Spring Branch, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I am going to try Amalie (73116-56 API GL-5 Certified 75W-90 Hypoid Multi Purpose Gear Oil).
My car is a 58 beetle, 2332 with a Folts built transmission. When I asked Dave for a gear oil recommendation he said "75/90 weight hypoid gear lube". I will let you all know how it works.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| EvilleT wrote: |
I am going to try Amalie (73116-56 API GL-5 Certified 75W-90 Hypoid Multi Purpose Gear Oil).
My car is a 58 beetle, 2332 with a Folts built transmission. When I asked Dave for a gear oil recommendation he said "75/90 weight hypoid gear lube". I will let you all know how it works.
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Both GL-4 and GL-5 are hypoid gear lubes. GL-4 lubes are usually specced for use with synchronizers while many GL-5 oils are not. I would recommend avoiding any GL-5 oil that is not specifically recommended for use in synchronized transmissions and transaxles.
Maybe try their Elixir Full Synthetic GL-5 75W-90 instead. |
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EvilleT
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Spring Branch, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| EvilleT wrote: |
I am going to try Amalie (73116-56 API GL-5 Certified 75W-90 Hypoid Multi Purpose Gear Oil).
My car is a 58 beetle, 2332 with a Folts built transmission. When I asked Dave for a gear oil recommendation he said "75/90 weight hypoid gear lube". I will let you all know how it works.
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Both GL-4 and GL-5 are hypoid gear lubes. GL-4 lubes are usually specced for use with synchronizers while many GL-5 oils are not. I would recommend avoiding any GL-5 oil that is not specifically recommended for use in synchronized transmissions and transaxles.
Maybe try their Elixir Full Synthetic GL-5 75W-90 instead. |
Dave recommended the Elixir Full Synthetic. I have placed and order. Now I have to figure out what i can do with the other stuff. |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| ..... started specifically specifying Mil-1-2105 (GL-4) for the '74 model year and continued to do so through the end of the boxer run with the '91 Vanagon, a period of 18 years. |
And thus we have the reason why the vast majority of 091/094 gearbox cores have worn out ring & pinions. |
Thus the reason no one ever can find a worn out set to take a picture of to post here. |
So now you're trying to tell the world that Mike at Rancho and Dave at Folt's don't know a worn out R&P when they see one? |
It should be easy for you to get lots and lots of pictures if this is happening as often as you claim, maybe several new ones each week for years on end. |
How many transmissions have you opened up and rebuilt?
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Bruce wrote: |
How many transmissions have you opened up and rebuilt? |
The number hasn't gone down since the last time you asked. |
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Frodge
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: Dump
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| So I just used the valvoline 80w90. I had an old bottle that looks exactly the same except for the little label on the new one that said limited slip. The part numbers are the same, I believe vv831. Do I need to dump this stuff out now? |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Frodge wrote: |
| So I just used the valvoline 80w90. I had an old bottle that looks exactly the same except for the little label on the new one that said limited slip. The part numbers are the same, I believe vv831. Do I need to dump this stuff out now? |
It says right on the Valvoline website "Recommended for conventional hypoid differentials and non-synchronized manual transmissions in passenger cars, light trucks, sport utility vehicles, vans and heavy-duty trucks where an API GL-5 or API GL-4 fluid is specified.."
If Valvoline is telling you not to use it, you might want to listen. They have other oils they do recommend for synchronized boxes. |
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Frodge
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: Dump
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:52 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I’m not thrilled with what valvoline did. Like I said, I always had a quart bottle around for topping up purposes with the part #vv831.
I bought three quarts of vv831 yesterday and put it in my transaxle. They did in fact change the labeling and wording. So now I need to dump this out. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:00 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Frodge wrote: |
I’m not thrilled with what valvoline did. Like I said, I always had a quart bottle around for topping up purposes with the part #vv831.
I bought three quarts of vv831 yesterday and put it in my transaxle. They did in fact change the labeling and wording. So now I need to dump this out. |
If Valvoline took a product and changed its product information wording so that the product would no longer be recommended for something as common as a synchronized automotive gear box, then either they were getting a lot of bad feedback when it was used in a synchronized box or they got sued by someone.
It would also be possible that they on their own decided they should produce a product more suitable to a synchronized box, so they quit recommending their older product for that purpose.
Will the presently available vv831 hurt your box if an earlier version did not? Can't say with any certainty. |
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:24 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Look kids here’s oil you can use and not be afraid. |
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Frodge
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: Dump
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| I can’t believe after all this the valvoline doesn’t work.🙄 |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76909
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Frodge wrote: |
| I can’t believe after all this the valvoline doesn’t work.🙄 |
It works for me. And my tranny builder specifically mentioned to use it. So I take my advice from the horse's mouth and not the other end of the animal.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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