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Lingwendil
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
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Location: Sneaking up behind you
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 Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:47 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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WAIT... it's GL4 and GL5, is that possible. Can they coexist?
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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evanfrucht
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Joined: July 24, 2016
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Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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It says for "NON -syncronized manual transmissions"
What's that all about?
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1967 Bug ( the daily rod )
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mukluk
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Joined: October 18, 2012
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Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| evanfrucht wrote: |
It says for "NON -syncronized manual transmissions"
What's that all about? |
That's more or less the original point behind this drawn out thread in the first place -- GL5 rated lubes can be corrosive to yellow metals under certain conditions, and syncros are made of yellow metal. The manufacturer of the lube doesn't recommend this for transmissions that have synchros for this reason.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2789226#2789226
One could also argue that GL5 lube is too slippery for the syncros to work as intended, though this can vary.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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But it's also GL/4 rated.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Valvoline states it meets or exceeds GL4 and GL5, that's not the same as being GL4 rated. They also specifically state in their product information that a different product (Valvoline Professional Series Manual Transmission Fluid) is to be used in syncronized manual tranmissions.
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Document/184...162d889bd1
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Lingwendil
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Joined: February 25, 2009
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Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Too late 
I can always change it again if it makes me lose sleep. Enough of the people that build and repair these apparently have zero issues with this particular product. The stuff that came out looks brown and smells like swamp water in addition to the distinct transaxle oil stink.
It took an eight foot "I wasn't asking" pipe extension to get the drain plug out 
Good bit of fine steel on the drain magnet 
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
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jim martin
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Joined: January 14, 2004
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Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Good GOD man .
not again
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Glenn
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Joined: December 25, 2001
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| jim martin wrote: |
Good GOD man .
not again
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This is why there's a dedicated topic.. easier to ignore.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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evanfrucht
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Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 2180
Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I thought it was more an issue of the transmission not shifting as well
I dont think GL5 is going to harm any metals.... could be wrong but that is what I gather....
My point was more... don't they add some kind of friction modifier or something for syncro fluid... so that the syncros will shift better or smoother or crisper? Or maybe leave out something that is good for differentials, but makes syncros shift worse....
I thought the consensus was GL5 is fine as long as the fluid is meant for syncros. Isn't it wrong to put fluid that says "for NON-syncro trans" in an trans with syncros....
... regardless of the gl5 or gl4 spec.... that has nothing to do with syncros, more about how much the oil can put up with as far as heavy shocks and loads, how well it protects/lubes, etc.
Sorry guys but this topic needs a few more pages, LOL!!!! 
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Lingwendil
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Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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evanfrucht
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
I went with this stuff based on the fact it's recommended by a few folks with decent amount of experience with these. If I'm not mistaken it's what ends up in most Berg boxes now too.
Like I said, it's not a big deal to swap it later if it rubs me the wrong way. Car isn't even back on the road yet |
Ya I definitely wouldn't worry about it. I am just curious to get to bottom of this, or atleast keep digging the hole deeper  My current fluid is likely 60 years old... lol. It worked fine tho! I plan to change it before the new motor goes in like you.
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| evanfrucht wrote: |
I thought it was more an issue of the transmission not shifting as well
I dont think GL5 is going to harm any metals.... could be wrong but that is what I gather....
My point was more... don't they add some kind of friction modifier or something for syncro fluid... so that the syncros will shift better or smoother or crisper? Or maybe leave out something that is good for differentials, but makes syncros shift worse....
I thought the consensus was GL5 is fine as long as the fluid is meant for syncros. Isn't it wrong to put fluid that says "for NON-syncro trans" in an trans with syncros....
... regardless of the gl5 or gl4 spec.... that has nothing to do with syncros, more about how much the oil can put up with as far as heavy shocks and loads, how well it protects/lubes, etc.
Sorry guys but this topic needs a few more pages, LOL!!!! |
The basic gist is while GL5 can corrode the syncros, it's not likely to do so in our gearboxes due to the sub-250°F operating temps as noted in the link I posted earlier. You may or may not experience shifting issues with GL5 -- it's not consistently a problem for everybody or in all weather conditions. If it works and shifts well enough for you then run it since the extra EP protection lessens wear, if not then stick with GL4. Manufacturers seem hesitant to recommend their GL5 products for syncro transmissions, probably due to liability issues.
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
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Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Any oil is better than dry, and yes I think it deserves a change every few decades |
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evanfrucht
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 2180
Location: Laurel Canyon, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:32 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| mukluk wrote: |
| evanfrucht wrote: |
I thought it was more an issue of the transmission not shifting as well
I dont think GL5 is going to harm any metals.... could be wrong but that is what I gather....
My point was more... don't they add some kind of friction modifier or something for syncro fluid... so that the syncros will shift better or smoother or crisper? Or maybe leave out something that is good for differentials, but makes syncros shift worse....
I thought the consensus was GL5 is fine as long as the fluid is meant for syncros. Isn't it wrong to put fluid that says "for NON-syncro trans" in an trans with syncros....
... regardless of the gl5 or gl4 spec.... that has nothing to do with syncros, more about how much the oil can put up with as far as heavy shocks and loads, how well it protects/lubes, etc.
Sorry guys but this topic needs a few more pages, LOL!!!! |
The basic gist is while GL5 can corrode the syncros, it's not likely to do so in our gearboxes due to the sub-250°F operating temps as noted in the link I posted earlier. You may or may not experience shifting issues with GL5 -- it's not consistently a problem for everybody or in all weather conditions. If it works and shifts well enough for you then run it since the extra EP protection lessens wear, if not then stick with GL4. Manufacturers seem hesitant to recommend their GL5 products for syncro transmissions, probably due to liability issues. |
That sums it's up well
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Teeroy
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Joined: April 20, 2003
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I'm running that same fluid in 3 different personal boxes, couple of them for over 10 years and one in a very abused autocross car. been in all of them to change or updates, no wear or issues with the yellow parts, R&P or bearings. Just keep it full and changed per mileage schedule
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vwracerdave
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Valvoline put that "disclaimer" on the label because jackasses will not let the myth die that it destroys yellow metals. Their "Special" manual trans gear oil is about $5 higher and very difficult to find. I've used Valvoline gear oil in my street cars and my drag race VW for 40 years.
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PuddleRainbow
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Joined: April 13, 2018
Posts: 288
Location: The Dirtiest Of Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:50 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Hello,
Is it normal for vw manual trans to feel stiff but moveable on cool (50F) mornings before the car warms up?
I changed out my trans oil last year to Sta-Lube GL4 from Napa. What came out seemed fine, not too funky or lot of metal shavings.
Thanks |
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Lingwendil
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PuddleRainbow
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Joined: April 13, 2018
Posts: 288
Location: The Dirtiest Of Jersey
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:21 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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| Nice. That takes one thing of the worry list. Thanks. My ride's a strictly 3-season. Going into hibernation soon. Thanks |
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