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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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75W90NS GL-5 GEAR OIL
NS means non-slip, for transaxles that need hypoid-protection and smooth shifting
CHECK COMPATIBILITY Didn't Find Your Vehicle?
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75W90NS GL-5 GEAR OIL
Designed for transmissions and transaxles - helps to slow synchros for easier shifting across a broad temperature range
Popular in Ferrari, Porsche and Subaru transaxles
Muscle Car applications like Ford Top Loader, Muncie transmissions, Borg-Warner T-10 and Super T-10
Contains extreme pressure additives like our 75W90 GL-5 oil, but lacks friction modifiers to balance slipperiness
Improved copper corrosion protection to prolong synchro life
Helps with lock-up on weak limited-slip differentials-compatible with Red Line Limited Slip Friction Modifier for tuning slippage
Also used with clutch-type LSDs in racing for maximum lock up
Recommended for API GL-5, GL-6, MT-1, MIL-L-2105E and SAE J2360
Non corrosive formula, safe for use with all synchro materials |
Good enough for me
thanks _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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HMVWNAB Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2006 Posts: 1068 Location: Sunshine State
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:36 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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4 year old video, 11:25 mark talks about GL4-GL5 debate.
https://youtu.be/Z7NpsMZ9pBQ _________________ What are the last 2 words of the National Anthem?
PLAY BALL! |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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My transaxle is completely empty of fluid. I took it apart and replaced the gaskets and seals. Should I get the trans up to temp and check the level again? How do u even check the level on these things?
Thanks _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50265
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:56 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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The specced level is something like 1/2" below the oil filler plug. Most people like myself fill until its starts running out the plug. You want the vehicle to be on the level when checking, the temperature doesn't matter much. |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Cool thanks guys. I'm guessing u use a pump to fill it? The plug is on the side right? _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31272 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Cusser wrote: |
My 1970's transmission got hard to shift after a few minutes in 2018. I can't remember whether GL-4 or GL-5 had been in it prior to its failure. But I bet 260+K miles - most of those miles with an 1835cc DP engine - were more of a reason than whether GL-4 or GL-5 was in it.
Incidentally, I purchased a rebuilt transmission from MoFoCo in 2018 to replace it, and those are shipped without gear oil. There was a reminder tag for me to add gear oil, and I'd have to check whether I used GL-4 or GL-5 in it, the tag did not specify. Anyway, that transmission works fine, as does the never-removed transmission in my 1971. |
My 2004 manual transmission Frontier is soon for its gear oil and rear differential gear oil change; the Frontier web sites and the web sites for my 1988 Mazda truck have exactly the same "discussions" about GL-4 or GL-5.
Yesterday I bought a gallon of Sta Lube GL-4 gear oil because I was near there and it was in stock (I think O'Reilly and Autozone only stock quart bottles, and GL-5). So hopefully one of my 2 gear lube pumps will fit right on that, or I'll need to pour into one of my old containers to pump in.
Just think - maybe we could get as many pages on a "pumping GL-4 from a GL-5 container" thread !!! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12454
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:59 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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The main takeaway here is and always has been GL4 vs. GL5 so it really comes down to overheating the gearbox. If you never overheat the box you’ll not have a problem, but old habits and ways of thinking persist. I get happy every time I fire up my old bug using GL5 full synthetic and it’s smooth as butter cold and works well in my 74 type 1 box that has never been overhauled.
Use GL4 by all means, it works and was top notch in the 70s living in the past seems to work very well for a certain few. More power to you brother, you are free it’s your right, 😀😀😀😀😀 Gene Berg used to say and I’m paraphrasing here, “ I believe 100% with about 90 percent of what he is saying” don’t get trapped in the past. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50265
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:15 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
Use GL4 by all means, it works and was top notch in the 70s living in the past seems to work very well for a certain few. More power to you brother, you are free it’s your right, 😀😀😀😀😀 Gene Berg used to say and I’m paraphrasing here, “ I believe 100% with about 90 percent of what he is saying” don’t get trapped in the past. |
Swepco could have labelled their 202 gear oil as a GL-4 had they wanted since it is designed to improve shifting. Had they done so it would have protected the gear sets just as well. Not being stuck in the past means accepting that a well designed GL-4 oil will lubricate just fine. |
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Busfixer Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2016 Posts: 25 Location: Midland, Texas
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Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Just when you thought this thread was exhausted, here is a condemning photo (the only one in the world if you believe certain contributors) showing steel and brass swarf on a 40 year old 091 trans drain plug after a change to GL-5 Mobil 1 75W-90 as I described on P.54. By the way, the original R & P was perfect. I now have reverted to synthetic GL-4 with excellent 5 year results after a Rancho overhaul with a Peloquin and a NOS mainshaft. Here’s a couple photos of the 091 after GL-5 and before Rancho:
After Rancho overhaul and fresh Amsoil GL-4:
Here’s the whole reason to argue about such things - the results! The next generation on a geology/fishing trip to Utah and Colorado and enjoying these buses as we did years ago. Looks like the the GL-4 is pretty good at getting to the Brook Trout! Or are those rainbows?
Thanks, Busfixer |
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erik76 Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2019 Posts: 34 Location: Tampa
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I know this is kind of old, so just finished my transmission and need oil in it.
What was the final verdict? GL4 or GL5? |
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Dan22 Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2019 Posts: 456 Location: Battle Ground, WA
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5446 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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erik76 wrote: |
I know this is kind of old, so just finished my transmission and need oil in it.
What was the final verdict? GL4 or GL5? |
What transaxle are you putting it in? IMHO, if it's the Bug transaxle GL-4 should be fine and you don't have to worry that it may compromise shifting. The Bug box does not have hypoid gears, the final drive is a spiral bevel drive. OTOH, if you are talking about a Bus box I would recommend some type of GL-5 gear oil. A number of knowledgeable people have reported ring and pinion wear issues, and those transaxles have a hypoid final drive -- something GL-5 is designed to protect. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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thehelper Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2013 Posts: 9 Location: brunswick, ga
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I ruined 2 transmissions with GL-5. A 63 OG bug & 66 OG bus. I did not know it was GL-5 or that that was an option. Got the same cheap Coastal 90w gear oil I always got or so I thought. this was back in 2005ish. The oil expanded and blew out the seals. GL-4 for me. _________________ You can drive your Porsche 140 MPH or your VW bus 65 MPH, you get the same thrill! |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76762 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:00 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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thehelper wrote: |
The oil expanded and blew out the seals. |
Can you elaborate? _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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thehelper Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2013 Posts: 9 Location: brunswick, ga
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Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:38 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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Oil was oozing out of places I did not know about. The the 63 Beatle there are 3 plugs in the front of the trans. I think the front it was a long time ago. They are lined up vertically I think. Oil was coming out from there as well as other places. Sounds like there is GL5 that will work now from this thread. Just be sure to pick the right one. Avoid Coastal GL5. I know I will. No more cheap oil anyway. VW's are no longer a dime a dozen. _________________ You can drive your Porsche 140 MPH or your VW bus 65 MPH, you get the same thrill! |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5446 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:22 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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thehelper wrote: |
Oil was oozing out of places I did not know about. The the 63 Beatle there are 3 plugs in the front of the trans. I think the front it was a long time ago. They are lined up vertically I think. Oil was coming out from there as well as other places. Sounds like there is GL5 that will work now from this thread. Just be sure to pick the right one. Avoid Coastal GL5. I know I will. No more cheap oil anyway. VW's are no longer a dime a dozen. |
There are 3 plugs in a row and a 4th nearby in the front of the Bug gear box. VW decided they should be plastic. They are there as a part of machining for the shift rod detent pins and springs. Over time the plugs rot away and fall out, or just get loose and don't seal anymore. They will need to be replaced to stop that leak. I don't think the type of gear oil used has much impact on this, perhaps some brands soften certain old plastics more than others. Aluminum replacements are available. I had to do this to my '63 gear box a couple years ago. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17273 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:31 am Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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thehelper wrote: |
Oil was oozing out of places I did not know about. The the 63 Beatle there are 3 plugs in the front of the trans. |
All 61-64 Beetle transmissions came with plastic plugs in those locations. Every one of them was eaten away by the oil. GL-4 oil will attack them just as bad as GL-5. The problem was the plastic, not the oil. That's why VW replaced them with aluminum plugs.
Since your plastic plugs were gone, it tells me your trans has never been rebuilt. 60 year old transmissions leak. Again, nothing to do with the oil. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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dpalinsk Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2007 Posts: 79
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic" |
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I’ve just recently became aware of oil analysis service providers, such as Blackstone, that claim they can judge the health of an engine or transmission by analyzing the unit’s oil. I read prolly 25+ pages of this thread as well as other discussions, I didn’t come across any posts showing results of transaxle gear oil analysis for either GL-4 or GL-5 over time. As I understand these tests, any significant or abnormal wear that would result in higher levels of various metal into the oil would be detected in the analysis of the oil. I’m surprised by the lack of this data in this thread as possibly a way of quantifying, in a more unbiased manner, the pros and cons of GL-4 vs. GL-5.
I’ve decided to run Amsoil Syntheitc 75W-90 in my tranny, but I’m going to have samples from the two transaxles I have, the original tranny and a rebuilt one with maybe 2000 miles on it, analyzed for two purposes. One, the original tranny only has 75,000 miles on it and I suspect it’s never been changed and it could be good baseline data to have for this transaxle. I thought there was a problem with third gear 15 years ago, but I was wrong. I bought a rebuilt tranny in 2007 from CB Performance for $400, but it only has maybe 2000 miles on it as of today. It works fine, but I have no idea really about the quality of that rebuild. I’m curious as to the story an oil analysis could tell me about this transaxle. Prolly not much, but why not .
I guess what I’m wondering, is why isn’t there more gear oil analysis data regarding this epic debate? Have I just not found it or is it not relevant for some reason? |
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