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ValleyHappy
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Walla Walla, WA
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 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: wbx 6 |
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Found this on the Brickyard.....has anyone ever seen these stateside? Or were they produced in such low numbers since VW didn't take it on.?
WBX 6.
The Caravelle based WBX 6 was built by German tuning firm "Oettinger" under special contract with VW and was basically a 2.1 wasserboxer with 2 more barrels and pistons added to make a Porsche like flat 6 and upping the capacity to 3.2l (3164cc), the barrels and pistons stayed the same but the crank, crankcase, cam and cylinder heads all had to be made specially. Fuelling was by Bosch with the tried and tested Digijet. VW decided not to take on the project which left owner Gerhard Oettinger with a design for the engine which they didn't want so he decided to buy the rights to the engine and offer it as a aftermarket conversion.
Other changes for the WBX 6 are.
V rated tyres.
Uprated brakes, Ventilated fronts and discs at the rear.
Uprated springs and shock absorbers.
Oettinger and WBX decals.
Leather bound steering wheel.
Extra dash gauges
85 litre fuel tank (as opposed to standard 65 ltr)
165 BHP @ 5000 rpm
standing 1/4 mile sprint - 18.4 seconds at 76mph!
top speed - 106 mph.
0-60 - 11.7 seconds.
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09 Suzuki SX-4 Crossover |
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MootPoint
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2006
Posts: 862
Location: ABQ, NM
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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top speed - 106 mph.
0-60 - 11.7 seconds |
"No officer. Your radar must not be accurate. This is a VW bus, sir. I couldn't possibly have been going that fast. Have a nice day."
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1984 Westy with tencentlife power! |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Do a search on Oettinger, you find some stuff. |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: |
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In the next month or so I will be finishing the installation of a WBX 6 into a Tornado Red Vanagon Carat. AFAIK this is the only one of these in this country.
At my urging a somewhat well-endowed friend of mine purchased a whole take out WBX 6 drivetrain from a Claer employee in Germany. It should be quite a runner: 3.7 liters, 180hp, 226 lb/ft of torque, and a VW/Audi automatic with a very tall 3.06:1 final drive.
After I finish the 2500E buildup, I'll get to this one. I'll be sure to post a feature about it here.
David |
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ValleyHappy
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Walla Walla, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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thanks David. I appreciate your posts and look forward to hearing about the wbx 6...gotta love all that torque...226!
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09 Suzuki SX-4 Crossover |
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ChesterKV
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Joined: February 07, 2005
Posts: 1725
Location: El Cerrito, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
At my urging a somewhat well-endowed friend of mine purchased . . . |
Uh, are we talking about a stick-shift ? 
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1984 Wolfsburg 7-passenger stock sunroof
1992 Subaru Legacy EJ22 boxer motor installed.... van is now sold.... currently playing with a 1987 Toyota MR2 with 1.6 liter twin-cam motor. Better than the Subaru boxers....... I'm impressed. Well, okay, in an "apples and oranges" kind of way.  |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ChesterKV wrote: |
Uh, are we talking about a stick-shift ? |
Nope. It's a 3 speed automatic with automatic section from an Audi 200 turbo and custom Oettinger final drive set of 3.06:1. Factory was 4.09:1.
David |
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16CVs 
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4024
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: Oetinger |
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Saw two of them and some Porsche B32's at Tuning Treffen at Hockenheim in June.
The Oetinger's are cool,but not as neat as the B32's. Which are Vanagons built by Porsche. They actually have a maroon owners envelope like a Porsche with the picture of a Vanagon on th ecover and listed as a B32.
There were some parts for sale for an Oetinger,A case some heads and pistons.Super expensive , but super cool.
Stacy |
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Alan Brase
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Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Oetinger |
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| stacy schneider wrote: |
Saw two of them and some Porsche B32's at Tuning Treffen at Hockenheim in June.
The Oetinger's are cool,but not as neat as the B32's. Which are Vanagons built by Porsche. They actually have a maroon owners envelope like a Porsche with the picture of a Vanagon on th ecover and listed as a B32.
There were some parts for sale for an Oetinger,A case some heads and pistons.Super expensive , but super cool.
Stacy |
Okay boys, now tell the public about the reliability of these things. They belong in a museum. You'd never keep it driving very long.
Want a 6 cylinder? Well you know the answer and it's not made in Germany. (but neither are German cars, these days.)If you want reliable and German, buy a 3.0 911. not a Vanagon, but it will get you there and back. And cost less than Oettinger stuff.
Al
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Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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funagon
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1308
Location: SLC, UT
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Oetinger |
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| 69doublecab wrote: |
Okay boys, now tell the public about the reliability of these things. They belong in a museum. You'd never keep it driving very long.
Want a 6 cylinder? Well you know the answer and it's not made in Germany. (but neither are German cars, these days.)If you want reliable and German, buy a 3.0 911. not a Vanagon, but it will get you there and back. And cost less than Oettinger stuff.
Al |
Al,
You'd mentioned something about this before, but I didn't take you up on it. I'm not sure what you're referring to about "the reliability of these things." The WBX 6 is just a 6 cylinder version of the wasserboxer but with a fully counterweighted chromoly Okrasa crank. The pistons, cylinders, rods, and valvetrain are all shared with the regular VW engine which IMO gives pretty good service.
David |
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ValleyHappy
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Walla Walla, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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So David, when you build this are you building it with the 2500 pistons? Thus the bigger displacement? If much of the motor shares parts with the 2.1 than that would indeed save it from the museum...not that it would go into a DD either. Sounds like a cool project.
To Each His Own!
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ValleyHappy wrote: |
So David, when you build this are you building it with the 2500 pistons? Thus the bigger displacement? If much of the motor shares parts with the 2.1 than that would indeed save it from the museum...not that it would go into a DD either. Sounds like a cool project.
To Each His Own! |
Actually this one is an already assembled engine that I will just be finishing up the installation on and getting it running. So it'll actually be a fairly short project. I can't wait to hear what it sounds like. One of the old road tests I have suggests that it sounds like a slightly detuned Porsche 911.
Yes, it uses the same pistons and cylinders as I'm using on my 2500E buildup. Oettinger sold the WBX 6 in three states of tune:
3.2 "N" version with 140hp.
3.2 "S" version with 165hp
3.7 catalyzed version with 180hp
Only the "N" version was available with a manual trans because they figured it was approaching the torque limit of the 094 trans. The others were automatic only. The 3.7 had a 0-60 time just under 10 seconds and would run up to about 115 mph.
The engine has a very cool cast aluminum intake manifold with the Okrasa logo on the plenum. The headers are an interesting piece of work. The outer cylinders use Type 1 style flanges out the sides, but the middle cylinders have the exhaust port going out the bottom and use a late Type 4 style square flange. The secondary pipes are quite large and mandrel bent. It has two Gillet mufflers - one in the usual Vanagon location, and then a final one to the right side of the engine.
Now you've got me excited to get started on that project. Good motivation to keep things moving with the 2500E.
David |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Oetinger |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
| 69doublecab wrote: |
Okay boys, now tell the public about the reliability of these things. They belong in a museum. You'd never keep it driving very long.
Want a 6 cylinder? Well you know the answer and it's not made in Germany. (but neither are German cars, these days.)If you want reliable and German, buy a 3.0 911. not a Vanagon, but it will get you there and back. And cost less than Oettinger stuff.
Al |
Al,
You'd mentioned something about this before, but I didn't take you up on it. I'm not sure what you're referring to about "the reliability of these things." The WBX 6 is just a 6 cylinder version of the wasserboxer but with a fully counterweighted chromoly Okrasa crank. The pistons, cylinders, rods, and valvetrain are all shared with the regular VW engine which IMO gives pretty good service.
David |
I was all excited about them some years back. I know, Oettinger has built some beautiful parts ever since 36hp VW's.
Then later I heard that pretty much NONE of them ever kept running very long. Mostly water problems. Cracked or warped heads, I think. Of course, it wouldn't be the crank, would it?
I don't know who told me about this. Vanagon.com, maybe. Ben Tan, maybe.
I was pretty disappointed. I'd ever since about 1995 wanted to put a bigger engine in my Vanagons. I just drive these, so my priority is reliability, fuel economy and power, in that order.
So, an engine with newer fuel management would be helpful. I kinda like the 5 cylinder, and actually have a spare 2.5 from a Eurovan.
But, the "S" word keeps coming up.
I don't really look at these as cars to get passionate about, perhaps for 2 resons:
1. They are so incredibly useful as haulers of both people and freight. Even though some are now almost 30 years old, the layout is unsurpassed as a vehicle to drive someplace economically and sleep in on the way. A perfect vehicle for a globe trekker.
2. I am old enough (5 that the cars I'm really passionate about, the ones I want to keep shiny and clean are older. Mostly cars from the 50's and 60's. 356 Porsches, Splittie Vw type 2's, old Corvettes, Jag xk 120's, Ferraris, Lancias, Astons. Not that I'll ever have the last 3. But I do have the first 3, and that is where my resources must go when I spend funny money.
Sorry, that came out a little more negative than I'd intended, I am really excited to hear more about the 2500 project. and thank you for sharing with us ANYTHING about Oettinger.
Al
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Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Make sure to take pics, David! I wanna see this beast with six heads.
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Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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As an aside. My brother kept destroying built 4 bangers in his single cab. Really built - like 2.4+ liter with Motec injection. He did wheelies. But the engines would explode from time to time. What do do?
Answer is simple. Porsche. Works fine and is the only engine that has lasted. All stock.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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lovedavdubs
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2004
Posts: 1597
Location: New York, NY.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
As an aside. My brother kept destroying built 4 bangers in his single cab. Really built - like 2.4+ liter with Motec injection. He did wheelies. But the engines would explode from time to time. What do do?
Answer is simple. Porsche. Works fine and is the only engine that has lasted. All stock. |
Or stop doing wheelies  
I kid
Dubs
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82 Air-cooled Westy (Lola)...My other vehicle is a subway. |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
As an aside. My brother kept destroying built 4 bangers in his single cab. Really built - like 2.4+ liter with Motec injection. He did wheelies. But the engines would explode from time to time. What do do?
Answer is simple. Porsche. Works fine and is the only engine that has lasted. All stock. |
Sometimes built 4 bangers have their place. Many years ago the autocross kings were 914-4's with built up 4 cylinder engines built using (possibly) 80.0mm Oettinger cranks and some other brand 103mm barrels to 2.7 liters.
Apparently they were even better for that purpose than the 6 cylinder Porsche engine. Possibly flatter torque curve?
At least, that's how I remember it.
Al
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Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
| Make sure to take pics, David! I wanna see this beast with six heads. |
that was the problem. Would that it had 6 heads. It only had 2 heads, but not as elegant as a Corvair. (Well, it had bolt on manifolds, at least.)
Al
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Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Oetinger |
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| 69doublecab wrote: |
Sorry, that came out a little more negative than I'd intended, I am really excited to hear more about the 2500 project. and thank you for sharing with us ANYTHING about Oettinger.
Al |
No offense, taken, Al. I always appreciate and look forward to your input.
I know what you mean about wanting a bigger engine for the Vanagon but finding no perfect answer. I have owned many Audis over the years and am a big fan of the 5 cylinder, but every time I look at having to raise the cargo floor to fit it in a Vanagon, I decide against it. I've done a Subaru 2.5 and a 2.2 conversion, and they have lots of power. However, I'm finding I'm more of a european car purist than I thought I was, and I don't really care for the "flavor" of these engines - that and the 2.5 is a gas hog. I think the next time I do a conversion in one of these it will be a TDI. I use my Vanagon to travel in, and the idea of 30 mpg on the highway and tons of torque for highway grades is appealing.
David |
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