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Driver side window stuck all the way down
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EastyRider
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:08 pm    Post subject: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

I looked all over the forum but couldn't find a solution to my problem. Maybe you fine folks can help...

I have a 1991 Vanagon Multivan with power windows. The other day, I rolled the driver side window down all the way to enjoy the beautiful Spring air in NC. When I got home, I tried to roll the window up and nothing happened...

I took off the door panel to inspect (keep in mind, the window is all the way down). I swapped around the switches to see if the switch was the problem. The driver side switch worked on the passenger window, so I ruled that out. The switch illuminates, so it is getting power.

I tried to move the door open and closed to see if it was a wire break in the crease, but nothing happened.

Next, I put my ear next to the motor/regulator and pressed the switch. I could hear a low electrical surge sound but nothing else... No clicking or anything

Is the motor jammed or the regulator or both? I am unable to remove them to inspect due to the window being all the way down AKA no access to the necessary 10mm bolts to release the regulator...

If it is one of those, how the hell do I get them out now that the window is all the way down? I saw someone was able to do it by cutting a hole in the door to access the bolts. is there another way?

FYI, water had been in the door due to a poor seal at the scraper before I bought it...
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0to60in6min
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

it's not my postings but here's a start...

https://shufti.blog/2011/01/27/vanagon-window-regulator-repair/

http://www.vanagonauts.com/Window-Regulators204.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFBjMb0pecM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5TxCtcNvfw
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

The actual motor has 2 wires. Power and ground. Sort of. The switch reverses them. So you could test the motor with an external power supply. Another option is to tap the motor while you work the switch to raise the window. That sometimes works.

I would refrain from cutting holes in the door. You might be able to undo the regulator and move it around enough to unbolt the glass from the lift mech
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DuncanS
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

Do this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Unfortunately, I don't have any measurements, but if you scale them off the photos, you can get the location of the holes. I think I remember the back hole 1 1/2" back from the hole for the panel retainer and the distance between the two at 5". But I could be wrong as it was several years ago so try to verify by scaling from the photo. They don't have to be exact and it you miss a bit, just enlarge them as the panel covers it all anyway.
In this top photo you can see the bolt head through the hole.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

In the second photo, you can see how I put a magnet on the socket extension so the bolts wouldn't disappear into the door. Once the bolts are out, you can raise the window manually and then deal with the issues.
If the motor--electric? won't work, then you have hold the window up while you remove the regulator. If is wiring then that's another issue recently dealt with in the topic "Power window driver side wiring". (Can someone tell be how to get the topic in blue as a link?) If you have to remove the glass, then remove all the weather stripping, the vent window and take the glass out.
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EastyRider
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
The actual motor has 2 wires. Power and ground. Sort of. The switch reverses them. So you could test the motor with an external power supply. Another option is to tap the motor while you work the switch to raise the window. That sometimes works.

I would refrain from cutting holes in the door. You might be able to undo the regulator and move it around enough to unbolt the glass from the lift mech


How exactly do you test the motor?
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EastyRider
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

DuncanS wrote:
Do this:

Unfortunately, I don't have any measurements, but if you scale them off the photos, you can get the location of the holes. I think I remember the back hole 1 1/2" back from the hole for the panel retainer and the distance between the two at 5". But I could be wrong as it was several years ago so try to verify by scaling from the photo. They don't have to be exact and it you miss a bit, just enlarge them as the panel covers it all anyway.
In this top photo you can see the bolt head through the hole.

In the second photo, you can see how I put a magnet on the socket extension so the bolts wouldn't disappear into the door. Once the bolts are out, you can raise the window manually and then deal with the issues.
If the motor--electric? won't work, then you have hold the window up while you remove the regulator. If is wiring then that's another issue recently dealt with in the topic "Power window driver side wiring". (Can someone tell be how to get the topic in blue as a link?) If you have to remove the glass, then remove all the weather stripping, the vent window and take the glass out.


Thanks for the info Duncan. I saw these photos in another post... Is there no other way?? I don't want to make holes, but I will if I have to. I saw another post where they had to cut the cable to the regulator but I am trying to avoid that also in case it doesn't need replacing.


Last edited by EastyRider on Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

EastyRider wrote:

How exactly do you test the motor?


Hook up the wires to battery +/- Jumper cables would work in a pinch. The battery's not far. You can find a good ground at the seatbelt bolt or the screws that hold the door latch to the jamb.
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CurtisS
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

It is likely the funky cable that raises/lowers the window has broken inside the gearbox connected to the motor and jammed it all up. It is not much fun to get out but I never had to drill holes in my door! See if you can get the window loose from the raising mechanism and follow the Bentley for removing the whole power window assembly (motor, gearbox and cable tubes).
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

DO NOT CUT THE CABLE. Holes get covered. No sign of them afterwards. There IS no other way to get either the glass or regulator/motor out.
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EastyRider
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

DuncanS wrote:
DO NOT CUT THE CABLE. Holes get covered. No sign of them afterwards. There IS no other way to get either the glass or regulator/motor out.


Thanks Duncan! If I can't get the regulator loose somehow, I will have to use a hole saw or drill bit to get a clean hole to access the bolts.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

The regulator is bolted to the glass with those two bolts. It is NOT possible to remove the regulator without removing the two bolts.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

Can you physically move the window up by hand from the inside? If yes you should be able to get it into a position where you can access the bolts.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

After beating on the motor/regulator with the grip end of a pair of channel locks, locking in the up button, and pulling up on the bottom of the glass.. I was able to get the motor to spin a little bit at a time until it was finally in position to where I can get to bolts out!!! Uhhh what now??? Haha
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

Congrats, glad you did not have to molest the door to do it. We have a member that rebuilds them. 16cvs or something similar is the user name. I would use him. No affiliation.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

Pull the bolts, pull the regulator. Try it one more time going directly from the battery to the motor. Just small test shots. If stiff, pull the motor. Once the motor is free of the regulator check it again to determine if it's the motor or the cable assembly. Check out the motor rebuild threads. Not as tough as it is made out to be.
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EastyRider
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Pulled the motor and it was gunked up and full of water. Tested it after draining and it turned briefly but I could tell it needed to be cleaned. Disassembled. Bearings were stuck to the shaft. Was able to break those loose and clean everything up pretty well. Just need to get some electric motor grease tomorrow befor reassembling it. Fingers crossed this is the issue
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

As recommended somewhere on this forum, I drilled a small hole at the bottom the regulators last time I did this job. It will allow the water to drain out, and if you place it smartly, will allow you to spray grease in there once in a while.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

Let me know how the motor does after you re-assemble. I've been working on the same issue. At first I thought it was the wiring, now I'm suspecting the motor, but still the wiring is a possibility. I'll likely be pulling the motor out and cleaning it up just like you did.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=715758&highlight=
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EastyRider
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

In my situation, the water and gunk in the motor housing was restricting the motor from spinning. After taking it apart, thoroughly cleaning everything, breaking free the bearings, polishing the shaft/bearings, and lubing it all up with motor oil.... it now spins!

It was all caused by water entering the door through a poor seal at the scraper. I will install the motor and regulator this evening and report back once it is all in place.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Driver side window stuck all the way down Reply with quote

It has nothing to do with the outside window scraper ! Those are not designed to keep water out. A properly sealed door skin is what protects the door panel from moisture and dirt intrusion. The door has drain holes in the bottom that need to be clear and open. The scraper keeps the big leaves and crap from entering the door and cover the metal at the top. Nothing more.
You need to stake that bearing keeper at the bottom. The bearing needs to held fast and not free spinning.
Drilling a hole in the regulator is not needed, take out the 2 rubber plugs in the bottom of the motor and that will allow any water that enters the motors to exit.
I have rebuilt 532 Motors and 320 Regulators, I may have seen a thing or 2 on the path down the road.

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