Trany issues.

[BumbleBuggy]

So I lost the bearings in one of my RGBs about a month ago. I decided that, since I was going to rebuild my boxes I might as well get a rebuilt center section (turned out to be a good idea since I found metal pieces in the drain plugs). I order from a local shop because the guy he gets his tranys from can build me a '67 trany faster than I can get it anywhere else I can find. I have to pay a couple extra bucks but I don't mind because my bus is my daily driver. This is where my problems started.

Trany was late...Only a couple days so I'm not too upset. These things happen.

Spent the better part of a day just trying to get the @#$%ing spring clips out at the side gears. Then side gear inspection shows the round side of fulrcum plates have destroyed the gears. Luckily axles still look good.

CIP1 has NOS side gears that just happen to match my axles. Order side gears and pray CIP gets them out fast enough (I 've had issues with them in the past).

Spent a week or so just cleaning parts (stubs, gears, tubes, ect.) Making sure everything was nice and sparlky for my new bearings.

Attaching front mount to trany I find wrong F'n nose cone!!! Trany is tagged by rebuilder as a '67 only bus trany. I should have made a better effort to inspect it before I got it home. Call supplier he calls builder who swears, up and down left and right, that it's built correctly (ie gears are turing the right way) and will send a new nose cone asap. I check and agree that is seems to be spinning the right direction. Get nosecone in a timely manner.

So yesterday I finished up installing trany, bled brakes, torqued everything down, filled trany and RGBs, and let it down off the jack stands. I finally felt good. I was on the home stretch. Just plug the engine in and go for a test spin.

NOT!

My flywheel won't clear the bell housing. Which brings me to my questions.

I'm currently running a 1600 DP that came with the bus. It has the larger 12v flywheel on it. Did '67 busses originally come with this size flywheel or is it possible that my old trany had been clearanced?

I know I can grind the bell housing so it will clear, which is my intention, but I would like a partial refund at least for being sold the wrong trany. I need this info so I don't call the supplier and make his ears bleed only to feel like an ass for being ignorant.
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Thanks, Glenn
Captian of “The Jolly Rancher" '67 Type II.

[Riff Raff]

67 bus transaxle bell housings fit the 200mm flywheel, so yes, the 67 trans should accomodate your 12V flywheel.
It appears (from your post) that you got a pre 67 transaxle complete with a Beetle nosecone.
I think you have reason to be suspicious about everything now - from the quality of the rebuild to the orientation of the R&P to the gear ratios.
It is possible that your old transaxle was not the original one to the bus and was clearanced to fit the 200mm flywheel, but if you supposedly got a 67 only transaxle back from the rebuilder, it would accomodate the 200mm flywheel.
It looks like you got a pre 67 transaxle back.
I think you should inquire about the gear ratios (first through fourth) as well as the R&P ratio to be sure you don't have a rebuilt Beetle centre section (That could be geared too low for a bus with RGB's)

Oh, BTW, you can sacrifice a set of cheap needle nose pliers to make a great snap ring tool for the side gear snap rings.
Just grind down the OD of a pair of needle nose pliers until the tips fit nicely inside the snap ring holes. The ribs on the face of the pliers hold the ring snugly and you have enough leverage to get a good grip on them.
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The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin

[Campy]

I bought a set of two made-in-China large size snap ring pliers for $10.00, plus tax, at Harbor Freight, a few years ago. I have removed the snap rings from about ten bus transmissions, since then, with no problems.
I know how you feel about the bus transmission. I bought a 1967 transaxle for my 1957 bus from Volkstrans north some 24 years ago because of the gearing and big stub axles (1964-1967) and I didn't want to grind out the bell housing.
Several years ago, I bought a rebuilt 1967 bus transmission (freeway flyer) from Transform and it lasted all of six miles. The old fart, without warning me, retired, after that, and I was left with no warranty. I'm sure that, since he was going to close the business, he hadn't been restocking his used parts, and my transmission got put in it the worse used parts that were left.
You have to be real careful who you buy a rebuilt bus transmission from. Without being there during the rebuilding process, there is no way to know how good or bad the used gears and other parts put in the housing are, and even if the correct shims were used and the gears put on the jig were adjusted properly. If someone doesn't have a lot of matched sets of used gears and other parts to choose from, then you may get some parts installed that are not that good. The safest way is to go through someone who has a real good reputation.
If it were my transmission, I would expect the rebuilder to give me a rebuilt 1967 bus transmission and take the other one back.
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Don't worry; be happy. (Baba)

[BarryL]

Wasn't there a guy on here recently that had a new 12 volt flywheel that wouldn't quite fit the 12 volt bell housing? It was just a tad too big or some such?

[BumbleBuggy]

[ekimikem]

[Campy]

Look on the side of the transmission case. A bus case will have, I believe, the numbers 211 on it. Type I will start with a one.
_________________
Don't worry; be happy. (Baba)

[BumbleBuggy]

OK so the engine and trany are in. Drove to work today (freezing cold no heat tubes hooked up yet). The good news is that it seems to be working alright and have the correct gearing. Good power and acceleration. I can hear the engine alot more since the RGBs aren't nearly as loud. They still have a "whine" but not nearly as bad as before.

Couple issues...

First is the clutch adjustment. I installed a new bowden tube as well as a clutch and T.O. bearing. Seems to be chattering some as it engages. When I installed the bowden tube it seemed (to me) like it may have had too much deflection. Could this be the cause of the chatter? Everything I've read says that chatter is a result of not having enough deflection nothing about too much.

Also, on the adjustment end of things, freeplay refers to where the T.O. bearing makes contact to the pressure plate and not the arm on the trany correct? Shouldn't the butterfly nut always have some tension on the trany lever? If not I need a longer cable or to remove some of the bend in the bowden tube.

Last, was going around a corner and downshifted into second. Trany promptly poped out of gear under the load. If this doesn't have something to do with the clutch adjustment, I'm going to have to pull the trany and send it back to the hell it came from.
_________________
Thanks, Glenn
Captian of “The Jolly Rancher" '67 Type II.

[Stocknazi]

it's not good practice to downshift to slow the bus down, it's hard on the transmission. better to leave it in gear and use the brakes to slow down.

no, the tranny should not pop out of gear anytime, if it is in good working order that is. sounds like you may have a bad rebuild.
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WANTED:
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"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."

Thomas Jefferson

[Campy]

StockNazi is right: avoid downshifting, except in certain circumstances, i.e., going down a grade, to slow the bus down, especially from third to second gear. Downshifting a lot will wear the synchros out way faster. It is a lot easier and cheaper to rebuild a brake system.
Regarding the bowden tube, it is important because cable sag in the tube gives a controlled amount of friction on the cable to lessen clutch chatter. The lower sag in the tube should be three-fourths of an inch to one and one-fourth of an inch. There is no way the tube can have too much sag unless there is a washer on the rear end of it. If there is too much sag and there is a washer, remove it.
To adjust the clutch cable, press down on the clutch pedal with your hand; there should be one-half inch to three-fourths of an inch of play. There must be play or the clutch won't completely disengage, and it and the throwout bearing will wear out. I like to err on the side of having plenty of play, as long as the clutch fully disengages. The wing nut on the end of the clutch cable will always have tension on it because of the return spring on the clutch arm on the side of the bell housing. Make sure that the return spring is not broken or the throwout bearing will bounce on and off of the pressure plate's arms, and will wear out.
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Don't worry; be happy. (Baba)

[stingah2]

Not to compleatly hijack but I downshift all the time. I have a 61 single with small nut (original?) tranny. The lights here in Flagstaff seem to be intentionally set to stop all traffic flow. So I downshift all the time and sometimes try to slip it into first while still rolling. If it feels smooth and helps save brakes is it really all that bad?
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62 Singlecab - I kinda like it
76 wanna be Porsche
Rust never sleeps, Stainless never rusts.

[Campy]

It is bad. Years ago, the third gear synchro in the 1962 transmission in my 1957 bus wore out after years of downshifting from fourth to third when approaching a stop sign or red lights. The gear was shifted thousands of extra times, which is why it wore out.
I had first heard about it, back then, when a well known mechanic on KGO radio in the Bay Area said not to downshift to slow your car down, in most cases. He said that it is a lot cheaper to rebuild the brake system than the transmission. Boy, was he right.
_________________
Don't worry; be happy. (Baba)

[BumbleBuggy]

As a general rule, I avoid downshifting. I was making a right turn and sort of messed up my timing durring the shift so it turned into a downshift because I didn't work the gas quite right. I'm hoping it's just a fluke but will do some further testing later.