Rear wheels locked up a 40mph. Rear Drums?

[carter turk]

I just finished installing a 2200 motor and coolant burp and was taking it for its maiden test run.

I got 4 miles and the rear end locked up. I skidded off to the shoulder w/o the brakes.

Its a 91 auto GL. The engine was still running, but it would not move forward or back.

I got underneath and loosened the E- brake nut and stuck the jack against my brake pedal and bled a little fluid out each rear brake bleeder.

It rolled, so I nursed it home.

I'm now trying to remove the drivers side rear drum and have been cussing all afternoon.

I turned the shoe adjuster both ways, cracked the bleeder pryed etc. I went one way all the way and nothing, so I went the other way.
Now the adjuster wheel is no where insight thru the adjustment window.

To slacken the shoes on the drivers side are you turning the adjuster down or up?

Can anyone help with a technique to get this frozen drum off?

Thanks a bunch for any advice.

[deprivation]

You could try to spray some PB Blaster into the bolt holes and let that work it's way into the union where the big hole in the center of the drum meets the hub. Sure, you will grease up the works but you're in the soup, anyway. No time to get squeamish.

I had stuck drums too and ended up pulling the hubs - a pain but very doable if you have that EMPI hub wrench (and I did).

I'm not sure why your wheels would just freeze up like that but backign off the tension on your parking brake cable is a good place to start. Once you got it jacked up, did the wheels turn?
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1986 Westy 2WD auto a.k.a. "The Old Girl"
www.kittenfart.com

[Vanagon Nut]

Make sure the little (10mm head?) bolts are removed. Heat. Bang on it. Soak some penetrating oil at the studs and at the holes where the little bolts go. Although unlikely, it may get inbetween the drum and the hub flange. More heat and banging. Try hitting it on the face of the drum and on the perimeter. Don't be shy, but don't bash the S**t out of it either.

Neil.

[carter turk]

Hey thanks for the responses to the NFG.

Deprivation, when I got it on the jack the wheel did turn.

Vanagonnut, I've been banging, prying, torchin, but like you said maybe a need to pound a little harder. I sprayed some wd in all the cracks and crevices and walked away.

Any ideas on the direction of the shoe adjuster?

Will resume some drift action tomorrow.

[vwmaniaman]

Be sure to replace the rear brake hoses. They come apart internally and act like a one way valve. Pressure goes to wheel and they springs are not strong enough to push the fluid back to release it. As for the adjusters, on the drivers side,lift screw driver to the center of the wheel to tighten on the rear adjuster and toward the outside of the wheel on the front adjuster of the rear wheel. On the passenger side it is just the opposite directions, rear of wheel out and front of wheel in toward center. Hard to explain this process.

[Dogpilot]

The truth about the rear drums is they are not VW's finest hour. They really do not self adjust well. The key I found to getting my brakes right was: replace everything in there! The cylinders get rusty and do not return, the shoes have levers on them that rust in place and make the shoes stick and rub. So once you eventually get the drums off (I had to remove the hubs on mine the first time), replace the cylinders, shoes and drums themselves. Get about 6 cans of brake clean and a stiff bristle brush. Clean everything. When you have it back together, you need to adjust the brakes a bit at a time. Put the drum on actuate the brakes, check for free rotation, repeat until they drag, then back off a couple of clicks and rock on.

_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[carter turk]

VWmaniaman,

So are you saying I'm turning more than one adjuster thru the window?
To loosen the shoe on the drivers side I push the screwdriver down?

Does the adjustment wheel only turn one way? I see in the Bentley manual the flat claw on the smaller toothed wheel. Do I need to push on that claw while using the flat head screwdriver on the bigger toothed wheel?

I was also wondering if I could enlarge the adjustment hole.

Thanks for all the help.

[carter turk]

Dogpilot,

In your photo the arrow points to the adjustment knob, but mine is no longer visible thru the sight window, all I see now is the end of a spring.

Is the screw on the back of the hub, above the axle, holding the wheel cylinder in place?

If I do take off the hub is the axle nut 56mm?

Thanks for the help.

[Vanagon Nut]

[Dogpilot]

If you see a spring, then much may be amiss in your drum. The cylinder is held in place with a pin and the bolt head. This is a tool that works to get the nut off. I had to use a 3/4 inch impact gun to get mine off:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EMPI-5748-VW-BUG-RE...enameZWD1V
_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[Vanagon Nut]

[bridgetroll13]

The first time I pulled the passenger side drum it required pulling the hub. This was after temporary deafness from banging and near asphyxiation from all the WD-40. Even the hub nut was unrelenting.

Someone suggested that hub nuts are cheap ($4.50 or so from BD) and if you drill a few small holes in a row on one of the flats of the nut you can easily split it with a hammer and chisel. Once the hub and drum were off the axle shaft it was easy to knock the hub out. I smeared a thin layer of anti-seize on the hub face so I don't go through that again.

Erik D.

[Dogpilot]

Eric is correct. It was me who dremeled a cut in the nut, then used a coal chisel to spit it. I also broke not one, not two, but three breaker bars doing it (gotta love Sears). In the interim, I rented an electric 3/4 impact wrench. Then I found the cool tool. We learn as we go.
_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[Alan Brase]

Pretty sure the big nut is 46mm. 1-13/16" 3/4 drive socket. I ended up getting a Chinese breaker bar from Farm Fleet . It was somewhat longer, I think 26" and it had a lifetime warranty. (I'm no great fan of Craftsman. I have better things to do than take back broken wrenches to Sears.)
I ALWAYS get it loose. You MUST have functioning brakes and an assistant to hold them on firmly. And leave the Vanagon on all 4 wheels. I put a 4 ft long pipe over the breaker bar and push pretty hard, sorta like all my weight -230lb- and the nut comes loose.
Pretty good advice on the repair, Dogpilot. The only thing I'd add, would be that in the rust belt, the backing plates are often toast. Luckily, we can still get them new for about $70 each, or somewhat cheaper at a dry climate recycler. But the brand new ones are made of galvanized metal, nice stuff.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home

[VDubTech]

WD-40 is NOT a lubricant. It is a Water Displacer. Get yourself a good penetrant like PB B'laster and let that sit overnight if you can. If all else fails, hit it harder.

[carter turk]

Hey thanks for all the tips.

I just needed to smack it a bit harder with a 4lb sledge. I did buy some PB Blaster and shot it after banging and it popped off.

I somehow turned the shoe adjustment wheel so the unthreaded end fell off in the drum, thats why I couldn't see it. The pads have about 40% left and there is no weirdness inside.

Never being inside a car drum, all looked correct per manual. No rust really, just a lot a brake soot.

The passenger side came off easily in about 5 minutes with a few whacks and PB.

What to do about the brake lines when replacing to keep the air out?

Have a full master cylinder and work quickly?

Bus Depot or Cafe is the place to get all needed items?

Thanks again.

[m2008s]

same happened to me. big fu^$ing hammer and some pb blaster with a smaller pry bar is wehat i had to do. had to get new shoes and do the brakes in the end even though they had meat left. no idea why this happened BUT my wheel cyl was leaking on the one that froze up? go figure

good luck

[Wildthings]

[MarkWard]

You will need to bleed anyhow. Now would be a good time to drain the entire brake hydraulic system front and rear. I would do all 4 rubber hoses front and rear. Also take a flat blade screw driver and make sure the wheel cylinder pistons turn. They could be seized. On something so old, you may want to replace the wheel cylinders while you are in there. It most likely would be ok to reuse the shoes. Take some 80 grit sand paper and scuff the brake drum shoe surface. Also as recommended, some grease or anti-seize where the drum and hub meet. Not too much, just a film. Clean the rust from those areas with the sand paper as well. Do this as recommended and you won't have to go back into the rear brakes for some time.
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[carter turk]

I ordered a whole rear end kit. I ordered new drums too, maybe not necessary, but I didn't have any way to measure 253.5mm or whatever the runout is.

New engine, coolant hoses, brakes, its starting to add up and I haven't really used it since November. I haven't sent the core back either.

I didn't order the front lines I suppose I could though.