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Danielle21
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Reno, NEVADA
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 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Pertronix (all points replacements) vs Points |
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| By the way I bought the pertronix ignition... |
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12466
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Danielle21 wrote: |
| By the way I bought the pertronix ignition... |
Lets see now points and condensor are available virtually everywhere for a couple of bucks and they last a long long time .. So A Pertronix costs 50-60 bucks figure another 30 or so for the coil and you could have bought 25+ sets of points for what you paid for that electronic whizz bang........
You could drive well over 100k miles before you ever break even and for what???? Speaking only for myself my cars use nothing but points and condensors, start in the coldest weather, get good gas mileage so what am I going to gain...
Theres a guy running around here selling the ''Mighty Mite''.... It is a series of plastic clips with a wire that connects all plug wires to coil wire and he claims better gas mileage, he cant explain how it works because as he says " its proprietary"...... He also sells a plastic piece that goes on the fuel line which he states lines up the molecules and gets em all going the same direction... He says it makes your car run better and saves gas too.... Yep
I know the Pertronix has been around a long time but other than eliminating points and condensor what have you gained .... Ever had one burn out on a cold rainy night??? Good luck finding another whereas a set of points and you're fweeming on down the road again...
Not to discourage you just weigh all the facts before jumping in and spending that money....... Maybe moneys not a problem 
Nobody loves me but my Mother, but she could be jiving too...
Jim- |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12466
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Anyone wishing to buy the mighty mite PM me or the fuel system molecule system alignment fixture... I'll hook you up with crazy Larry.. He carries a full line of of faith based products for the decerning few "true believers"
any takers???? step right up ladies and gents....
Jim- |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
Lets see now points and condensor are available virtually everywhere for a couple of bucks and they last a long long time .. So A Pertronix costs 50-60 bucks figure another 30 or so for the coil and you could have bought 25+ sets of points for what you paid for that electronic whizz bang........
You could drive well over 100k miles before you ever break even and for what???? |
I see you value your time at 0.
About 10 years ago, I left home on a road trip with fresh points. Before I got home, the points were so bad, starting the car was very difficult. I bought the Pertronix so I wouldn't have to dick around with such trivial items while on a road trip. I prefer reliability over saving a few pennies.
Your points will start to degrade after only a few thousand miles. A Pertronix never degrades.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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dtrumbo
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2006
Posts: 787
Location: Mill Creek, WA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| A Pertronix never degrades. |
Very true. It either works very well... or it doesn't work at all. Personally, I'd rather have a bug that gradually runs worse as the points degrade instead of a bug that suddenly doesn't work at all anymore with a failed Pertronix/CompuFire.
_________________
1970 Transporter. 2074cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1971 Super Sedan.
1973 Squareback.
1976 Transporter.
1978 Riviera Camper.
1979 Transporter.
1979 Beetle. |
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Kelley
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2003
Posts: 1432
Location: "Die Sonneküste" Crystal Beach, FL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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The pertronix and the compufire work well mostly, especially for ease of maintenance. Keep a spare set of points and condensor, just in case. Or better yet, keep a good spare distributor and timing light in your emergency kit. Mark your terminals accordingly on the coil so you know, in case the novice doesn't pay attention when removing wires. A brand new Pertronix wired improperly is a waste of 60 dollars.
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74 rusto-custom type 1 Sedan - SOLD
ZRX1100c3, Mean Green - SOLD
| Growler wrote: |
| I hate people. Are you people? I hate you. |
Just trying to remember classic Samba quotes from the 'Days of Yore' |
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Bashr52
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5666
Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| I have the pertronix in my 72. Was working great, tore down the engine to do a re-build, reinstalled distributer, and nothing. The module went bad just sitting there. |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12466
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
I see you value your time at 0.
About 10 years ago, I left home on a road trip with fresh points. Before I got home, the points were so bad, starting the car was very difficult. I bought the Pertronix so I wouldn't have to dick around with such trivial items while on a road trip. I prefer reliability over saving a few pennies.
Your points will start to degrade after only a few thousand miles. A Pertronix never degrades. |
Properly installed points will last many thousands of miles, if as you suggest a problem occured I would revisit how to install and maintain a basic points system... Hard start is the hallmark of points closing up, not the .016 as required and this can always be traced back to using incorrect lubricant on the rubbing block...... A quick primer do the service to the letter, oil the wick, grease the rubbing block, set the dwell and most importantly make sure the points are clean at the contacts before installation.... A weak condensor will also cause problems.... Replace points and condensor together, Use Bosch accept no substitutes.... This is basic auto 101 but unfortunatley is becoming a lost art...... Glenn Ring knows what I'm talking about....
Your experience is not typical and would point to operator error, but even as you concede your car still ran just not well.... A bad Ignition module either works or doesnt, the Pertronics leaves you high and dry, I have seen more than one failure and as with all electronics the warranty is good till you walk out the door with parts in hand an expensive propostion to say the least.... I can still buy a whole pile of points for your one module.....
Join AAA and keep the cell phone handy....Funny but VWs ran for many millions of miles from development right up to the end using the conventional system but ..... But as a caveat I can appreciate solid state electronics, they have their place ..
Here's a road trip saga back in 1979 driving a 1973 Beetle from Mobile Alabama to Long Beach California, much of the trip flat out especially through Texas, Houston to El Paso 80- 85 MPH ........ Made the trip in 3 and 1/2 days no problems .......... In California made weekend trips up to Sylmar to visit friends, no problems no adjustments 6 monthes later that old VW died because #3 exhaust valve decided to go south... That was my fault because I did not adjust valves, I also did not service the points either and the Volksie ran great right up to the bitter end... I bought a complete junkyard dual port running motor back then for 250.00 and was going again... Ah yes the good ol days....
Saving a few pennies??? Hardly its saving dollars and they add up... As for my time, you've seen alot more of me last few weeks because I found a back door into the Internet here at work.... Now I can get paid to look at Samba and talk to you Bruce  What could possibly be better than this??????
Rather than scrap and modify the various systems VW developed over the years I take pride in being able to maintain and enjoy my car just the way they intended......
To the person deciding between points system or electronic just carry an extra Pertronics or a set of points and the question becomes moot if you got a big roll of money.... Who gives a hoot????? you'll always be ready to go again.... There is no such thing as a foolproof system .. Understanding both alternatives will help you find an answer..
Jim- |
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68Bug-lite
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2005
Posts: 1087
Location: Tustin, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| I bought the Pertronix so I wouldn't have to dick around with such trivial items while on a road trip. I prefer reliability over saving a few pennies. |
In complete agreement. Seemed that with every small engine hick-up, I had to check the points just to eliminate them as a possibility! Eventually I'd find the vacuum leak, or fouled plug or whatever, but not until I've waisted time checking points  . Not a good sign when point adjustment/failure is one of the first things you look for when nothing obvious (ie broken belt) jumps out at you.
I run a Unilite now, but keep my old Dizzy w/ Pertronics as a backup . |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12466
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| You wasted your time dicking with points because you did not know how to troubleshoot |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Let me address the issue of points wear.
If you use BOSCH points which have tungsten contacts and have a working condenser the points will not pit.
If you take 10 seconds and put a dab of Bosch distributor grease on the cam at every oil change they rubbing block will barely wear. And you can do this the same time you put a drop of oil on the wick under the rotor to lube the advance. After all... adding a Pertronix does not mean the wick you can stop lubing the advance.
I've put 30,000 miles on a single set of points with adjusting them maybe 2 times.
I've also put 465,000 miles on my car and never had a points related problem or get stranded because of my points.
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If you want a Pertronix... get one.
Until I can do a test of two identical distributors, one with a Petronix and one with points, back to back I have never seen any performance increase. And my engine starts with no problems so I see no reason there either.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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NOVA Airhead
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005
Posts: 5221
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: |
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I have owned several vintage cars and have always kept the points/condensers.
One arguement in defense of tradition is that having the points/condensers does make you do periodic maintenance. If you are checking your dwell every few thousand miles it makes you also check all the other stuff. Putting in the Petromix lends itself to having a modern car that needs very little maintenance. VWs are not that. They need to be looked at, you need to listen to changes in the way the motor sounds, etc. Of course you could do a lot of this having the Petronix setup but I think a lot of people will tend to forget.
A properly tuned engine with quality parts should go at least 10k miles before needing replacement points and condenser.
For me the points/condenser are fine. My car is stock and used only on nice weekends for pleasure drives. When the car needs a tune, its something that I set time aside for on a nice day, take my time and enjoy something that ends up being relaxing.
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ed stanley
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2006
Posts: 508
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| For daily driving in all weather 30,000 miles a year, I go with Pertronics. Always starts fast, never get that skip that tells me "time to make the doughnuts" - I mean, adjust the points. Life is other things besides playing with points. Maybe if you have a Model A Ford that you drive occasionally on Sundays, you might want to stay "original". |
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ScottK
Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 1748
Location: Avilla America
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I'm sticking with points, but that's what works for me. I've been down the "electronic" ignition road (walked it, as a matter of fact  ). |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12466
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| ed stanley wrote: |
| For daily driving in all weather 30,000 miles a year, I go with Pertronics. Always starts fast, never get that skip that tells me "time to make the doughnuts" - I mean, adjust the points. Life is other things besides playing with points. Maybe if you have a Model A Ford that you drive occasionally on Sundays, you might want to stay "original". |
If adjusting points or just doing a quick visual inspection once in awhile is too much work buy a Toyota... Sometimes its easier to dismiss and avoid those things we dont understand or have difficulties with, points fall into that catagory for some it seems.... I still maintain dollar for dollar you are way ahead using the system VW made available...
Big complaints come from dealing with the tiny screw that holds the points down but are you aware of a special spring loaded screw driver that holds this at any angle even upside down.... Sears even sells this tool
and its common in the electronics world as well...
On VWs I drive regularly I do a daily inspection which consists of general visual and checking the cooling fan for leaves or rags, also looking for oil leaks and belt condition.... Owning a VW is akin to owning a Harley they require maintenance and lots of it so you either become schooled in it or you pay someone to wipe your behind for you..
Avoiding looking at your engine is not cost effective in the run..Enjoy your ride become one with the ass that bears you......
Jim- |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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It really comes down to who fixes your car when it no longer works. Is it you or is it someone else?
I have adjusted points on many, many, many cars over the past 35 years and I am just plain tired of doing it. I even have to wear glasses now also. 
Don't beat me up if I want to run a points replacment module. I do carry a new set of Bosch points in my tool box and I can am able to adjust them correctly.
I have paid my dues. |
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Bugorsh
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2004
Posts: 1358
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: |
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I have been running the Pertronix for many many years and never had it fail. I still do the normal maintenance and also do the visual inspection with some hands on (checking fuel hose to see if it is getting brittle etc.) checks too. I like not having to adjust the points and I like the easy starting and smoother running engine I get using the Pertronix. I do carry a spare set of points and condenser just in case along with a small tool box that has enough tools (the right ones) to almost rebuild the car.
In addition, for safety and reliability I have converted to Disc brakes up front, I suppose you think this is a waste of money too since they did not come on the US bound cars from the factory and the oem brakes do seem to stop the car... eventually. I do not have to adjust the brakes as much now, but I still check the rear adjustment and the pad wear on the fronts periodically.
Just because a car works ok from the factory does not mean it is the best setup. Bringing a car to full production requires a lot of compromises, and the VW Beetle, being the inexpensive peoples car, had a bunch of them. I am not knocking some brilliant German engineering, just saying that technological advances over the years allow for some modernization of our little cars.
Bottom line is, there is nothing wrong with modernizing an older car for reliability, just remember to do your regular maintenance and inspections as previously required.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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So, how many guys who have switched from points to a Pertronix have also switched from carb to EFI?
After all they don't need to be adjusted and cost way more than carbs.
Apple and apples or abacus and laptop?
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Calex59
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2007
Posts: 64
Location: Ione, California
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Nobody loves me but my Mother, but she could be jiving too... |
You stoled that from BB King. One of my favorites btw.  |
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Bugorsh
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2004
Posts: 1358
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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My point is, you don't have to switch to all the current technologies, but there is no reason why you cannot switch over to the ones that are desirable to you.
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