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deronmoped Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2006 Posts: 375 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Try a locking gas cap.
At close to $3.00 a gallon and how easy it is to fit a siphon hose down into a Buses gas tank, I would not rule out gas thieves.
Deron. |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:22 am Post subject: |
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deronmoped wrote: |
Try a locking gas cap.
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Good one, maybe the problem. Also wonder if he has a teenage son that quietly pushes it out of the driveway in the middle of the night.
I've never tried to see how much gas I could intentionally burn up with bad driving methods. But probably 50% worth. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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crankyjellyfish Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Getting very poor gas mileage !!! |
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mnskmobi wrote: |
crankyjellyfish wrote: |
After reading through 14 pages of posts I thought I'd contribute to another! My bus gets about 5 mpg in the city, maybe 10 or a little less on the highway. I've been reduced to driving my bus on Sundays only
The PO had a dual solex carb conversion installed about 8 months ago because of the gas mileage problem. I've tried using higher octane with minimal results.
Does anyone have any suggestions or am I just SOL ?
Thanks,
'73 Westy 1677cc dual port dual solex conversion. |
More info, please!
What sizes are the carb jets?
What is ignition timing set to, particularly the max advance w/o vacuum?
What is the compression on each cylinder?
When were the valve gaps checked?
What is the ignition dwell? |
Here's a picture of my engine. I think I have a type 4 engine ? _________________ '73 Westy 1677 Dual Solex |
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Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
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Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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gas mileage computer from Sears installed in a 1970 Datsun 510, down Pali Highway at 65mph. engine at idle.
365mpg
Aloha
tp |
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chrisd1891 Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2009 Posts: 252 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Made a trip from seattle to ruby beach. Loaded with 6 people and lots of stuff, doing 55mph the whole way.
1969 1600cc Dual weber
I got 24mpg on the highway. But in the city....don't wanna talk about it _________________ 74 Bay + 93 Corrado SLC + 2015 TDI Wagon
Admin at Aircooled Rescue. Register to help out your fellow VW folks. |
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crankyjellyfish Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Getting very poor gas mileage !!! |
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Here's a picture of my engine. I think I have a type 4 engine ?
_________________ '73 Westy 1677 Dual Solex |
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stupidsongs2 Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2006 Posts: 550
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: every wondered how well they did when brand new? |
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airkooledchris wrote: |
I found my previous owners log book of repairs and fillups/etc.
Here is the first page from the book in the fuel fillup log, and as you can see its usually around 20 dead even when on the highway and dips to the 15's or so around the city.
as you can see from the miles on the motor so far, this was from when the van was literally brand spankin new! |
This is almost identical to the mileage I was getting in my 78. So few people actually bother to calculate MPGs properly. Thank you for uploading some proper evidence. |
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kulo Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2008 Posts: 21 Location: The armpit of the North.
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I was happy to get an increase of 2mpg this year on the same trip that I take every year (380 miles round trip). Got a solid 22mpg this year. I have a stock setup in my 70 bus 1600 sp only mod is the electronic ignition. Prior to this trip I installed a new mech fuel pump, new cvs, rebuilt the carb, fuel filter, rebuilt gen. and then just regular maintenance. I was loaded for camping, 2 people, and pushed her pretty hard at an average of 65mph, no headwind going down. I run Prime Well PS850 tires- P185/75/r14 treadwear 460 traction a temp b. |
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crankyjellyfish Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Getting very poor gas mileage !!! |
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crankyjellyfish wrote: |
Here's a picture of my engine. I think I have a type 4 engine ?
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So DO I have a type 4 engine?? _________________ '73 Westy 1677 Dual Solex |
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mnskmobi Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2005 Posts: 536 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Getting very poor gas mileage !!! |
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crankyjellyfish wrote: |
crankyjellyfish wrote: |
Here's a picture of my engine. I think I have a type 4 engine ?
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So DO I have a type 4 engine?? |
Yes! |
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crankyjellyfish Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Getting very poor gas mileage !!! |
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mnskmobi wrote: |
crankyjellyfish wrote: |
crankyjellyfish wrote: |
Here's a picture of my engine. I think I have a type 4 engine ?
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So DO I have a type 4 engine?? |
Yes! |
WOO HOO! Now we're gettin' somewhere! I always knew my engine didn't look like the rest, so was the type 4 engine stock on the 73 westy ? This was probably dropped in later, I'm guessing. _________________ '73 Westy 1677 Dual Solex |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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I think were finding out why you don't get good mileage _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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crankyjellyfish Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Desertbusman wrote: |
I think were finding out why you don't get good mileage |
So the Type 4 engine is pretty fuel inefficient ? _________________ '73 Westy 1677 Dual Solex |
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chrisd1891 Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2009 Posts: 252 Location: Seattle, WA
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patayres Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2009 Posts: 991 Location: Bend, Orygun
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: |
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crankyjellyfish,
You're going to have a hard time until you learn more about your vehicle yourself - rather than relying on others to explain some very basic fundamentals (i.e. what type of engine you have).
There is an abundance of information online about the VW Type 2 (that means bus, transporter, etc.). Type 2s were made with Type 4 engines from 72-79. They became fuel-injected in 75. The Type 4 engine is NOT inherently fuel ineffecient... as you can read, most of us get around 20 mpg -- that's pretty good considering the weight of a Type 2 (particularly those of us that have the extra weight of a camper conversion - over 3000 lbs) and that these engines produce less than 70 hp. Here's some more info/history (copied from wikipedia)...
In 1968, Volkswagen introduced a new vehicle, the Type 4. The model 411, and later the model 412, offered many new features to the Volkswagen lineup.
While the Type 4 was discontinued in 1974 when sales dropped, its engine became the power plant for Volkswagen Type 2s ("Kombis") produced from 1972 to 1979: it continued in modified form in the later "Vanagon" which was air-cooled from 1980 until mid-1983. The engine that superseded the Type 4 engine in late 1983 retained Volkswagen Type 1 architecture, yet featured water-cooled cylinder heads and cylinder jackets. The Wasserboxer, VW speak for a water-cooled, opposed-cylinder (flat or boxer engine), did not enjoy the reputation for longevity that the original air-cooled design had forged. From the very start, the engine suffered cylinder-to-head sealing problems, mostly due to galvanic corrosion, often a result of slack maintenance schedules. Volkswagen discontinued the engine in 1992, upon the introduction of the Eurovan.
The Type 4 engine was also used on the Volkswagen version of the Porsche 914. Volkswagen versions originally came with an 80 hp fuel-injected 1.7 L flat-4 engine based on the Volkswagen air cooled engine. In Europe, the four-cylinder cars were sold as Volkswagen-Porsches, at VW dealerships. This "tainted" the car in the opinion of many automotive critics of that era, and a little of that attitude persists to this day.
Slow sales and rising costs prompted Porsche to discontinue the 914/6 variant in 1972 after producing 3,351 of them; its place in the lineup was filled by a variant powered by a new 95 PS (70 kW; 94 hp) 2.0 L, fuel-injected version of Volkswagen's Type 4 engine in 1973. For 1974, the 1.7 L engine was replaced by a 76 PS (56 kW; 75 hp) 1.8 L, and the new Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection system was added to American units to help with emissions control. 914 production ended in 1976. The 2.0 L engine continued to be used in the Porsche 912E, which provided an entry-level model until the Porsche 924 was introduced.
For the Volkswagen Type 2, 1972's most prominent change was a bigger engine compartment to fit the larger 1.7 to 2.0 L engines from the VW Type 4, and a redesigned rear end which eliminated the removable rear apron. The air inlets were also enlarged to accommodate the increased cooling air needs of the larger engines.
This all-new, larger engine is commonly called the Type 4 engine as opposed to the previous Type 1 engine first introduced in the Type 1 Beetle. This engine was called "Type 4" because it was originally designed for the Type 4 (411 and 412) automobiles. There is no "Type 2 engine" or "Type 3 engine", because those vehicles did not feature new engine designs when introduced. They used the "Type 1" engine from the Beetle with minor modifications such as rear mount provisions and different cooling shroud arrangements.
In the Type 2, the VW Type 4 engine was an option from 1972. This engine was standard in models destined for the US and Canada. Only with the Type 4 engine did an automatic transmission become available for the first time in 1973. Both engines displaced 1.7 L, rated at 66 PS (49 kW; 65 hp) with the manual transmission and 62 PS (46 kW; 61 hp) with the automatic. The Type 4 engine was enlarged to 1.8 L and 68 PS (50 kW; 67 hp) in 1974 and again to 2.0 L and 70 PS (51 kW; 69 hp) in 1976. As with all Transporter engines, the focus in development was not on power, but on low-end torque. The Type 4 engines were considerably more robust and durable than the Type 1 engines, particularly in transporter service.
The T2c, so called since it got a slightly raised roof — by about 10 cm — in the early 1990s, was built for the South American and Central American markets. The T2c was produced in Mexico until 1991* with the 1.6 L air-cooled Type 1 engine, and from 1991 until 1996 with water-cooled engines from the VW Golf (a VW/Audi 1.4 L). Since 1997, the T2c has been built in Brazil with air-cooled engines for the Brazilian market and with water-cooled engines for the Mexican market, the latter easily identified by their large, black-coloured, front-mounted radiators.
Since production of the original Beetle was halted in late 2003, the T2 remained the only Volkswagen model with the traditional air-cooled, rear-mounted boxer engine when the Brazilian model shifted to water-cooled on December 23, 2005. Previously, the watercooled T2c was sold in Mexico between 1991-2002.
Also check out www.ratwell.com
Read & learn the fundamentals of your vehicle & then you'll be able to ask more specific questions that will get more specific answers and less of these -> _________________ 1975 Westfalia Helsinki - 1800 EFI w/ Pertronix
1965 Singlecab - 1600dp
yuthi'so'coro |
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crankyjellyfish Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:48 am Post subject: |
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patayres wrote: |
crankyjellyfish,
You're going to have a hard time until you learn more about your vehicle yourself - rather than relying on others to explain some very basic fundamentals (i.e. what type of engine you have).
There is an abundance of information online about the VW Type 2 (that means bus, transporter, etc.). Type 2s were made with Type 4 engines from 72-79. They became fuel-injected in 75. The Type 4 engine is NOT inherently fuel ineffecient... as you can read, most of us get around 20 mpg -- that's pretty good considering the weight of a Type 2 (particularly those of us that have the extra weight of a camper conversion - over 3000 lbs) and that these engines produce less than 70 hp. Here's some more info/history (copied from wikipedia)...
In 1968, Volkswagen introduced a new vehicle, the Type 4. The model 411, and later the model 412, offered many new features to the Volkswagen lineup.
While the Type 4 was discontinued in 1974 when sales dropped, its engine became the power plant for Volkswagen Type 2s ("Kombis") produced from 1972 to 1979: it continued in modified form in the later "Vanagon" which was air-cooled from 1980 until mid-1983. The engine that superseded the Type 4 engine in late 1983 retained Volkswagen Type 1 architecture, yet featured water-cooled cylinder heads and cylinder jackets. The Wasserboxer, VW speak for a water-cooled, opposed-cylinder (flat or boxer engine), did not enjoy the reputation for longevity that the original air-cooled design had forged. From the very start, the engine suffered cylinder-to-head sealing problems, mostly due to galvanic corrosion, often a result of slack maintenance schedules. Volkswagen discontinued the engine in 1992, upon the introduction of the Eurovan.
The Type 4 engine was also used on the Volkswagen version of the Porsche 914. Volkswagen versions originally came with an 80 hp fuel-injected 1.7 L flat-4 engine based on the Volkswagen air cooled engine. In Europe, the four-cylinder cars were sold as Volkswagen-Porsches, at VW dealerships. This "tainted" the car in the opinion of many automotive critics of that era, and a little of that attitude persists to this day.
Slow sales and rising costs prompted Porsche to discontinue the 914/6 variant in 1972 after producing 3,351 of them; its place in the lineup was filled by a variant powered by a new 95 PS (70 kW; 94 hp) 2.0 L, fuel-injected version of Volkswagen's Type 4 engine in 1973. For 1974, the 1.7 L engine was replaced by a 76 PS (56 kW; 75 hp) 1.8 L, and the new Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection system was added to American units to help with emissions control. 914 production ended in 1976. The 2.0 L engine continued to be used in the Porsche 912E, which provided an entry-level model until the Porsche 924 was introduced.
For the Volkswagen Type 2, 1972's most prominent change was a bigger engine compartment to fit the larger 1.7 to 2.0 L engines from the VW Type 4, and a redesigned rear end which eliminated the removable rear apron. The air inlets were also enlarged to accommodate the increased cooling air needs of the larger engines.
This all-new, larger engine is commonly called the Type 4 engine as opposed to the previous Type 1 engine first introduced in the Type 1 Beetle. This engine was called "Type 4" because it was originally designed for the Type 4 (411 and 412) automobiles. There is no "Type 2 engine" or "Type 3 engine", because those vehicles did not feature new engine designs when introduced. They used the "Type 1" engine from the Beetle with minor modifications such as rear mount provisions and different cooling shroud arrangements.
In the Type 2, the VW Type 4 engine was an option from 1972. This engine was standard in models destined for the US and Canada. Only with the Type 4 engine did an automatic transmission become available for the first time in 1973. Both engines displaced 1.7 L, rated at 66 PS (49 kW; 65 hp) with the manual transmission and 62 PS (46 kW; 61 hp) with the automatic. The Type 4 engine was enlarged to 1.8 L and 68 PS (50 kW; 67 hp) in 1974 and again to 2.0 L and 70 PS (51 kW; 69 hp) in 1976. As with all Transporter engines, the focus in development was not on power, but on low-end torque. The Type 4 engines were considerably more robust and durable than the Type 1 engines, particularly in transporter service.
The T2c, so called since it got a slightly raised roof — by about 10 cm — in the early 1990s, was built for the South American and Central American markets. The T2c was produced in Mexico until 1991* with the 1.6 L air-cooled Type 1 engine, and from 1991 until 1996 with water-cooled engines from the VW Golf (a VW/Audi 1.4 L). Since 1997, the T2c has been built in Brazil with air-cooled engines for the Brazilian market and with water-cooled engines for the Mexican market, the latter easily identified by their large, black-coloured, front-mounted radiators.
Since production of the original Beetle was halted in late 2003, the T2 remained the only Volkswagen model with the traditional air-cooled, rear-mounted boxer engine when the Brazilian model shifted to water-cooled on December 23, 2005. Previously, the watercooled T2c was sold in Mexico between 1991-2002.
Also check out www.ratwell.com
Read & learn the fundamentals of your vehicle & then you'll be able to ask more specific questions that will get more specific answers and less of these -> |
Thanks. Yes, now that I know the type of engine I have, I can learn all about it. In fact, I have already started, beginning with the very wikipedia article you're quoting. But my lack of knowledge of my engine type surely has little to do with the fact that I'm getting poor gas mileage.
But I agree, I'm a long ways off from understanding why this is so until I have more knowledge and experience under my belt.
CJF _________________ '73 Westy 1677 Dual Solex |
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john7 Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2003 Posts: 1542 Location: Garden grove ca
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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my 70 bus got 28 town and 31 hwy
i ran a 2176cc engine
120 cam
ported and polished 40x35.5 valve heads
dual 44 webers
custom made 1 1/2 heater boxes and header with dual mufflers
7.8:1 compression ratio
4.57 ring and pinion in the trans _________________ Jesus Saves
Slot Mag King!
I accept Paypal, CASH, GOLD, SILVER, COINS, GUNS & money orders. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
got 24mpg on the highway |
going down the highway being pulled by a truck with a tailwind. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Desertbusman Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005 Posts: 14655 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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This ones for you Kent.
364 miles, fully packed with all my camping gear. No room left in the back. Final altitude gain of 6,000 feet but many mountains and valleys in between. A minimum of approx 30 miles in 3rd gear. Pretty much keeping it at 60 MPH except when I had to down shift. Now before you start yelling bull $hit you need to understand that you are not the only one that knows how to accurately use a correction factor to compensate for odometer errors. Likewise how to accurately determine the correction factor. Oh-yea, same pump at the beginning and at the end. Almost forgot- 24.4 MPG. And yes, speedo reads in MPH and not KPH. And the gas is U.S. Gallons. And I'm not mathmatically illiterate. Plus the bus has headers. Since you say stock exhaust results in less fuel consumption than headers, wonder what kind of mileage gain it could have gotten?
Of the thousands of vehicle that passed me the only thing I could pass were a few semi's on upgrades. A T-4 passed me but also a beautiful lowered show Split Dormobile passed doing maybe 75. Saw the Splitty later and it had a Porche emblem on the back.
Also ran into a friend with a fully equipped Westy running a 2 liter T-1 with his home brew hydrogen enhancement and his numbers are way up in the thirties. _________________ 71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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Air_Cooled_Nut Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004 Posts: 3040 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I heard about a guy who once got something like 116mpg+ in his bone-stock Bus.
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Turned out that is the terminal velocity of a Bus that rolls off a cliff _________________ Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
The First Invasion |
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