Rear disk brake question

[dan macmillan]

Did you install your rear calipers on the front side or the rear side of the rear axle?
I am installing the setup from CIP EMPI with park brake on a swing axle. They supply a short flex hose to "allow the caliper to move freely" which is a necessity. I started with the caliper to the rear and noticed that the flex hose has no support and you end up with about 12 inches of unsupported steel line { from original rear flex to new shorter one}. Also there is quit a bend in the short flex, clearance for exhaust. I am thinking that if mounted to the front of the axle I can use the spring plate as a mounting point for the short flex and steel line.
How did you do it? Pics please.
For those about to ask...I already used the search button.
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66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
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Built for others:69 Manx Clone

[Glasser]

I've never mounted disc's with e brake so not sure what to do with that but something that may be of concern is the bleeder valves for bleeding the system. If not at the highest point you may not get all the air out....... "may" is the key word. I should think that they should be mounted so as the bleeder is always on the top. Can the caliper be mounted in both locations with the bleeder on the top? If yes no worries your back to your original question. If no then this helps you make your decision on how they be installed.
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Brent
My build up http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Project#2. Neighbors build up. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=327008

[dan macmillan]

[fozzymark]

just finished my disc with e-brake conversion the supplied hose is to short (every kit from empi seems to be missing something or other to complete it fronts need to be drilled for speedo cable no seals in kit Etc. )
I went with 12"braided steel brake line to jump from the connecting point to the caliper no problems

[vw (o\!/o) nut]

[dan macmillan]

[vw (o\!/o) nut]

[cooperhilscher]

Wow, that looks good, how big of a problem can that bend be? I am having serious problems with my rear disk brake kit... How do you adjust the pads? when I put them on the rotor they are wayyyy too tight and it just scrapes... I dont understand how they physically back off the rotor when you take your foot off the pedal, theres no springs or anything...

[bob cook]

whenI did mine on a IRS with e brake had the same problem 1 side of pads were rubbing real hard checked everything twice ended up having to put a washer between caliper and mount to center caliper I believe this is caused by empi"s strict qaulity control !!!!

[didget69]

[dan macmillan]

[cooperhilscher]

awesome, Thanks guys, I will definitely try all this out. Post again soon

[eastcoastconversions]

[quote="vw (o\!/o) nut"]

[vw (o\!/o) nut]

[dune limo]

[kumatiger]

I'm half way through the same kit install on my buggy and ran into some issues with the brake fittings. The EMPI kit supplies an adapter to go from the caliper to your regular 10mmx1 balloon flare lines and the instructions say to re-use your old hard line.

Well I have some problems with the "adapter" they ship in the kit. The caliper is machined with a 10mmx1.25 thread opening for the fluid inlet and if you look in this photo they machined banjo bolt crush washer grooves around the fitting inlet. (apologies for the orange overspray in the groovy photo)

Here's a picture of the adapter with a 3/8" crush washer on it (the 10mm one was even looser). There is hardly any sealing surface on the adapter and it actually is chamfered up and away from the edge where the washer sits.

In the first photo you can sort of make out the bottom of the bore as a tapered seat from the drill bit. I don't know if its 37 or 45 degrees or something else. The adapter included with the kit does not look like it would seal against that bottom surface and it does not look like it would seal against the banjo fitting rings. The adapter bottom actually has what looks like a reverse flare feature on its end.

So it doesn't look like the banjo surface will seal and it doesn't look like its even long enough to bottom out in the caliper bore. Assume for a moment that you do get it installed and get it to seal. The next part they include is the flex line adapter to allow the caliper to float. Its supposed to go into this caliper adapter, which is now a standard 10mmx1 balloon flare.

Here's what the end of the adapter hose looks like. It doesn't quite have a balloon flare and the machined surfaces on the end are full of ridges so I'm not sure if the taper would seat properly against the bottom of the adapter or not.

So assume you got that one to seal leak free somehow - here's what's waiting for you in the other end of the adapter. The threads are full of burs and chips which are waiting for you to shear them off with your brand new brake fittings. Who knows if they'll stay put or if they'll get washed downsteam into your new caliper and eat the seals. I tried to get a good picture with the sun lighting it up but its hard to get the camera to focus down there. The shadow you see at the bottom of the bore is the shadow of the bur - its actually looped shaped.

Thanks to some very helpful posts by vw (o\!/o) nut with some part numbers I got some banjo fittings from some local parts places and I've started assembling a banjo based system. The banjo fitting looks very different from what EMPI supplied in terms of sealing surface. Its obvious this caliper was made to use crush washers and the banjo bolt head matches it perfectly. (adapter on left banjo on right)

The banjo bolt has a nice shoulder to center the crush washer that the adapter does not have and you can see the gaps between the two are very different.
Empi:

Banjo:

Here's the banjo to AN3 fitting installed. If you go this route you'll need to get back from AN3 to 10mm x 1. The scary part is that AN3 is 3/8x24 which threads into 10mm x 1 fittings just fine, but very loosely. The AN fitting is about 0.020" too small and I doubt the tapers would match up and seal properly either. I'm going to either get a fully custom hose with banjo on one end and 10mm x 1 on the other or get some AN3 female to female pre-made hoses and just adapt back to 10mm x 1 on the other end.

So all of you who have your EMPI rear brakes plumbed in - did you get the same adapter I did or did you get something different? I see no possible way this kit would work out of the box - it will never seal properly and I'd be afraid to use it. I'm sure it would work great with banjo fittings and you might even get a 10mm x 1.25 balloon flare to seal in that caliper but I see no possible way the kit supplied parts can make a reliable seal.

Andy
(shopping for hoses online in another window as I type this)

[BL3Manx]

I just installed a set of these on an IRS buggy yesterday. They initially leaked where the hardline connected to the supplied flex line and where the flex line connected to the adapter fitting in the caliper. However, I was able to tighten the connections hard enough without stripping anything, to stop the leaks.

The biggest problem I had was section of the caliper which supports the pads, touched the rotor on its back face and damaged it. I had to grind down the caliper at two points to clear the rotor.

[dune limo]

''I'm half way through the same kit install on my buggy and ran into some issues with the brake fittings. The EMPI kit supplies an adapter to go from the caliper to your regular 10mmx1 balloon flare lines and the instructions say to re-use your old hard line.

Well I have some problems with the "adapter" they ship in the kit. The caliper is machined with a 10mmx1.25 thread opening for the fluid inlet and if you look in this photo they machined banjo bolt crush washer grooves around the fitting inlet. (apologies for the orange overspray in the groovy photo)''

I got over this problem by getting some nipples made up for the caliper to take a hard line (I could not purchase ANY for the pitch size) make some nice tight bends, then put a nipple on the hard line and connect to what ever soft line you you are going to use.

[dan macmillan]

[[email protected]]

In plumbing a nipple can be threaded for both connections, does not indicate the type of fitting you show (hose nipple?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipple_%28plumbing%29
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