First-time vanagon purchaser - please help me choose!

[SdSam]

Please help me decide which one to purchase. Both of these vans are being sold through private party owners.

1987 vanagon GL with auto transmission and 273,000 miles on original gas engine. Seller is second owner and has owned van for 10 years. No rust, clean interior. Standard everything. All lights, windows work. If purchased, I’d probably install a new stereo and remove the middle seat to make room for my surf board. I’d also probably need new tires within the next couple of months. Starting price is $1990 but is negotiable. Kelley blue book value for good is $2200 and fair condition $1780. I think I can get the van for $1600.

OR

1988 vanagon westy with auto transmission and 180,000 on original gas engine. Seller has upgraded the van quite a bit, here’s a laundry list that he posted with his ad:
- new front window regulators spring 07
- new starter in spring 07
- tuneup, coolant flush and fill (no coolant leaks and does not run hot)
gas tank re-seal - no gas tank leaks, new rear brakes, summer 07
- new sony x-plod cd player with mp3 input jack and new rear speakers spring 07 (no receipt for this but it is obvious that it is new and works great)
- new right front wheel bearing and new front brake pads fall 07
- oil changed fall 07
- front and rear seat covers- summer 07
- new engine control unit, new spark plug wires, jan 08
- body work and paint job (6 year warranty, transferrable) fall 07

But, the speedometer is broken. He says there is 180,000 miles on it, but odometer reads 170,000. Starting price is $4000. Kelley blue book value for excellent condition is $3200 and fair condition is $2900. I negotiated with him and he lowered it to $3700, but he refuses to go any lower. A mechanic quoted me $200 to fix the speedometer

I feel as though the 87 vanagon is a ticking time bomb with those number of miles. But, I think the 88 vanagon owner is asking too much. Plus, there are a lot of miles on the 88 vanagon as well.

Any ideas on how much a new engine would cost me if either of the engines blew up?

[mysticalclimber]

I would go with the one that has a better sound system.

[Perales]

Those are not high prices. A rebuild motor is going to cost you more than the price of either van. Are you planning to work on it yourself? I would go for the lower mileage 1988 Westy. Westy's are worth more because of the camping equipment.
_________________
-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino)

[Crughy]

It simply does not compare.
I would not want a vanagon passenger. unless it's a syncro.
True, it has some advantages, it's all based on your needs. But I would get a beater with a better mpg and reliability (younger van). This mileage is really extreme! it's almost a good sign: it's been reliable. But most other components have that mileage too. It might demand a lot of maintenance.
Do you intend to sleep in it, etc? Do you a have a spare way of locomotion?
DO you work/have a place to work on it?

A westy is unique on the other hand. good resale value too.

Those prices aret very decent. A good maintained one (westy) is 2 or 3 times that price (I have not seen this one though).

Regarding rebuilt price. I don't know exactly, it all depends on what's needed. Often, it's just a head gasket job. ¨+ new heads, etc.
It goes from 1000 to 3-4000$ for a complete engine.

JP

PS: check the classified for an idea of how much those vans are asked for.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/cat.php?id=55

engines here: (not too useful)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/cat.php?id=57
Search the vendors instead, lots of them do that work.

[Captain Pike]

The 88
_________________
LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current.......................

[SdSam]

this would be a daily driver for me. I don't commute too much, maybe 10 miles round trip. I don't have a place to work on it..so all repairs would be done in-shop. I don't camp all that often, but maybe that would change if we went with the wolfsburg.

[Vanagon Nut]

Sounds like you just need a surf mobile. Having said as much.....

My vote: '88 Westy. Double check the mileage if possible.

Possible drawbacks: less room for your surfing needs and worse fuel mileage. (Westy interior)

But then you could always take out what you don't need

Either way, be prepared for things to go wrong. A 2.1 WBX can go 200K + or not.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Perales]

[SdSam]

[redtail]

once you start to see the repair bills you'll learn fast.

I just had a shop quote me $1500 to do the ball joints and tie rod ends on the front of my '82 westy. I ordered all the parts from bus depot for $125. 1 Saturday and another $70 for a front end alingment and you can see the huge difference a little determination can make.

At least learn how to do the basic maintenance stuff - it's not much harder than changing oil and it can save you a ton of money. I.E. I overheard my co-worker yesterday say she paid a local mechanic $140 to replace the fuel filter in her '84 Golf. Ack!

[Perales]

[SdSam]

[riceye]

The Westy will serve you better through time, and be worth more in the end. Plus, the records would indicate that it has had more TLC.

As far as repairs, if you're pulling down the big bucks your spare time would be better spent surfing, and not crawling around under your van in a parking lot. That's your choice. Thesamba is here if you need the help, though.

Cheers!
Ric
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig

[SdSam]

[SdSam]

Can someone explain why the kbb price for the 1988 wolfsburg is $800 lower than the asking price? So far, you've all said the asking price is a good deal.

[Perales]

[Crughy]

One good tip is that worth in many aspect of life is to make friends.

Seriously most minor jobs can be done yourself. But any minor job can turn a nightmare because you did not plan well enough, have the good tool, could not do it on your own, etc.

I suggest you get some help from mechanically inclined friends, etc.
busdepot.com gowesty.com etc for the parts. But since you are in SCA, I am pretty sure there are lots of shops around. Service is great to have when it comes to parts.
One major aspect is to have all the good parts and tools when you start working on it. Sounds dumb, but that's still the major thing to improve on my side.
a 2 hour job for one unprepared guy can take the whole weekend. compared to 40 minutes with cool friends! You'll learn a lot with others.

lots of tips here.

JP

PS: now that you have a westy, you'll be the cool guy people want to hang out with. Make sure you take benefit from it! have them work on your van!

[Crughy]

[SdSam]

[jakebayless]

For me to weigh in, you haven't given quite enough information here.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd be focused on completely different things than I was a year ago when I bought my Syncro:

RUST.

It is really all that matters. Everything else may as well be equal. Because whether a car has 180k or 240k makes no difference. The reality is that you'll need to spend thousands of dollars ~no matter what~ in the next couple years fixing things. It's a reality that comes with having a 20 year old vehicle if you are intent on maintaining it.

What is expensive: Rust and paint.

I would limit myself to this order of items (take it for whatever it is worth):

1 - No rust. None. Not OK. Look on craigslist for So. CA cars - not from snowy environments (salt roads)

2 - OK paint. Needs to be in good enough shape to take a good waxing. (because a good paint job will be 4k+

3 - Motor - only buy bone stock runner with good compression. (personal pref)

4 - Mechanicals. because even the poorest maintained vehicle with a running motor & smooth tranny will only cost a couple thousand to bring back to long roadtrip shape.


The way I see it is this: Vanagons are still a relatively easy thing to find. If you take your time - don't race to purchase, but keep looking until the right one comes along. It exists.

I have an nice metaphor for this little dilemma:

A friend of mine back in college - a good guy - a nice guy - was always with a lady. Always! He always had some honey to go home to, or go out with, or whatever... right? And, there were a handful of us that were just flabbergasted - it was nonstop. This was the luckiest dude. Except - he never settled down - which, when you are in college is fine, but I guess we all were just blind to this reality at the time.

So, one day I couldn't stand it anymore - I HAD to know what his secret was... Hung like a horse? Super sweet to the ladies? What!?

You know what he said?

He said: "It is easy, Jake. You just gotta lower your standards!"


Lower Your Standards.

Huh.

So - my humble metaphor for you, based entirely on the mistakes I made, is *do not lower your standards*. The right van will come along, and if you have your list of requirements in order, you'll find the right van.


Cheers!
~jake