1986 2.1 L 2WD Vanagon GL Head Gasket Project

[id]

10cent my friend, the vehicle is manual transmission. So your sage advice is falling on the right kind of ears:)

After reading your input the other day on front seals and using the search on the forum, I managed to track down a Sabo front seal from the local VW dealer for not much more than the GW price. Interesting thing is that the sticker on the package says "Made in Germany" while the writing on the seal says "Made in Brazil". That's VW for you I guess.

The labour continues along with the photos. Here's some more pics of the work to date. I am showing the pictures of the clutch components prior to cleaning in case anyone has an opinion of how bad or good the condition is:)

View of the paper gasket installed on the opening next to the diz. Not sure what the opening is for. The existing gasket was a bit tough to scrape off, but I figured for completeness I would swap it out.

View of the same opening with the plate reinstalled.

Shot of the inlet to the water pump bolted back into place. It pains me to put these rusty old pipes back onto what is now a fairly clean engine. But hey, they work.

Thermostat housing outlet with the hose in place.

View of the engine rear with the (cleaner) mounts reinstalled

View of the front of the engine prior to pulling the clutch elements.

Friction surface of the pressure plate. The surface looks very smooth, with some of the original machine marks still visible. This is the Luk brand of clutch system, which I think VC sells as the more robust clutch kit. Makes me think that the clutch had been re-done on this engine at some point. Do new VW engines use this manufacturer for the clutches?
I did the stepping on the fingers test 10cent described above and the fingers felt stiff. Based on that I think the PP is okay.

Shot of the clutch disc. The thickness of the disc is roughly 5/16". Is this enough thickness to re-use? The springs rattle but there is no visible gap at the end of any of them.

Shot of the other side of the disc. I am considering reusing. Mrs. Id is starting to look at me funny when I say we need to dump a few more hundreds into the van... And it seems to meet the re-used spec. I might try and track down the PO and see when the clutch was done last.

View of my jury rigged flywheel locking device for pulling the flywheel. Not pretty but it worked.

Shot of how I pulled the flywheel. Allen key and a wrench extender. I'll buy the hex adaptor for my torque wrench before I reinstall, so I can get the correct torque.

View of the front of the engine with the flywheel out. It looks to me as though the front seal was leaking, so I am happy I took the time to do this step prior to reinstall.

The friction surface of the fly wheel. Again it looks smooth with some of the original machine marks evident. I plan to clean this one up and re-install. I noticed that the o-ring for this one is black, while the one I have left in my gasket set is silver gray. Have I used the black one somewhere else in the re-build that I shouldn't have? Or is the silver grey one the right one for this job?

View with the front seal pulled. Everything looks okay to me here. Am I missing anything? I didn't see the felt ring anywhere in my disassembly. Also how do I service the needle bearing? A little MOS grease?

And the my favorite picture. The jury rigged endplay measurement tool. With the front seal out I measured a difference of .005-.006" for the endplay. My read of the Bentley has this just at the wear limit. When I cinch the flywheel down to full torque, will I gain anything? Anyone know where near Victoria BC I can find shims? Should I bother?

So my take here is that I am going to swap the flywheel o-ring, put the felt ring where it belongs, install the front seal, clean everything with Brakleen (why not varsol?), sand the friction surfaces of the PP and flywheel, and put 'er all back together.
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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL

[wavanagon]

this is a fantastic post. thanks for sharing all of the pics and knowledge. this one is for the archives!
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1988 Vanagon GL - For Sale
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[id]

Couple last questions before I stuff this baby back together.

1. How think is a clutch disc to start with? Is there a wear limit specified?

2. Where does the felt ring go? Inside the needle bearing?
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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL

[tencentlife]

I was going to comment last night but it was late and too tired.

Your clutch disc looked OK to me, fairly fresh. The PP and FW friction surfaces looked like they had some hot spots, but not concentrated in any area so I think they are minor surface irregularities. Rough them both up with some medium sandpaper, rinse with a clean-drying solvent, and you should be good to go. Besides looking at them and doing the foot-pressure check, previous performance is the best evaluation of a pressure plate. If that clutch performed allright before, then you probably have a lot of service left in it.

I just checked a new Sachs disc for you: thickness is about 9.35mm. The rivet-heads are about 1.75-2mm deep from either friction face, and the rivet heads are the absolute wear limit. If wear were even from both sides (it seldom is, though), then minimum thickness overall would be something like 9.35- (2 x 1.75) or about 5.85mm. By then the things are so thin they warp easily, and probably cause some trouble wth low-gear engagement as a result. But that should give you an idea of how fresh your disc is. It looked pretty new to me.

The felt washer tucks into the crank side of the flywheel hub. There should be a retainer pressed into the hub already. Just rub the felt with moly or oil, and put a pinky-finger-tip's worth of moly in the pilot bearing and rub it around 'til the needles are well-coated with it.
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Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[id]

Thanks once again for your support on this project 10cent. Where do I send the case of beer?

Last night got the clutch components hosed down with brake cleaner. Buffed the friction surfaces on the PP and the flywheel and managed to tap home the front seal. Tonight I've gotta get the rest of it buttoned up because my buddy Rob with the hoist is coming tomorrow.

A couple of shots for completeness.

The engine front after a once over with a rag and some solvent

Same shot after tapping the new rear main seal in. (Why is the rear main seal on the front of the engine?)

Friction face of the flywheel after buffing the face with medium emery cloth and a spritz down with brake cleaner

Ditto for the pressure plate

And the disc as well

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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL

[tencentlife]

I didn't mention seal installation, but with the correct seal, the Sabo which is 12mm deep, it should be driven in until it bottoms in the case, not even with the case surface like you do with aircooleds. And it's always put in dry; no sealant around the outside.

Obviously that means that were you to use one of the other seals, you would want to drive it in to a depth similar to where the Sabo would end up. But you have the premium seal, so driven in until it stops is supposed to be the right depth.

It's called the rear main seal by convention. Most engines are in the front, so the flywheel seal is on the engine's rear.

Confused enough yet?

Your endplay of .006" is right at the wear limit but since the thing is worn-in and settled you should be OK with leaving it as is. Busboys is the only vendor I've found that offers the shims for the wbx individually and as a mixed set.

The silver o-ring is the right one to go in the FW. The OEM ones were often black.

The flange next to the diz is the location for the mechanical fuel pump used with carburetors, just like the older motors. Remember that the wbx was marketed in many European markets with carbs.
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[id]

Put in dry you say?

Unfortunately I followed the Bentley here and oiled up the outside of the seal before I installed it. This is one where hopefully people reading this post can learn from my error.

Should I pull it and reinstall? I worry about damaging it. Let me know what you think. In either case I will tap it in until it seats fully in.

'Nuther question:

When I cleaned the rear of the engine, there was some type of sealant around the outside where the case snugs into the trans. Silicone or something. What would be the purpose of this? Is it worth doing when I put the engine back onto the trans?

Thanks again for all the input. I hope others get to learn from all this:)
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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL

[tencentlife]

If you oiled the outside of the seal before driving it in, I think you'll be OK. If VW recommends that, then it probably works just fine. We've always put them in dry. The main point was not to use any sealer on the outside of the seal. That just doesn't seem to work. The worst thing you could do would be to pull it back out, because the seal would be damaged no matter how careful you try to be. Just drive it all the way home and don't worry about it. Make sure to coat the inner lip, the sealing flange on the flywheel, and the o-ring lightly with oil before the final FW installation. And don't forget a little moly for the pilot bearing, and a little on the clutch disc hub splines so it can slide easily on the pilot shaft.

Syncros have a sealed bellhousing against submersion, with ventilation on top, but sealing there on a 2WD is unnecessary. It won't hurt, but it adds nothing unless you spend a lot of time driving in deep water.
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[id]

The engine is bolted back into the van. Rob came by last night with his hoist and we managed to get the engine safely into position. Then, with few twists on the main pulley the transmission shaft slid onto the disc and we were home free. It worked out very smoothly, which was great.

Now I've got the plumbing, electrical, and fuel systems left to re-assemble and I can see what happens when I turn the key.

Here's a couple of shots of the work leading up to the reinstall.

A shot of the "rear" main seal driven in to the bottom. Needle bearing is greased

The flywheel with the felt ring and o-ring installed. Felt ring is greased.

End shot of the flywheel re-installed.

Transmission bell housing wiped down and ready for reinstall. The throw out bearing pivot points got a little moly grease.

I had to take out the old thermostat housing because the new one is already on the engine. This is a shot of the housing with some of the hoses removed.

Last shot of the engine ex-vehicle. The water pump pulley has been put back on.

Action shot just before sliding the engine back under the van. I had to jack one corner of the van up to be able to slide the oil breather under the bumper.

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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL

[pete000]

Nice Post !
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1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
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Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

[tencentlife]

Good job!

Is that your twin?
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[ftp2leta]

[quote="id"]

View of the front of the engine with the flywheel out. It looks to me as though the front seal was leaking, so I am happy I took the time to do this step prior to reinstall.

quote]


It's not the seal that leak but the inner O-ring inside the flywheel.
http://www.benplace.com/clutch/100_0017.jpg

also, the block bore hole plug! they are the one leaking there!
the 2 one on the botom right.

Ben
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[id]

Thanks Ben:)

I did replace the flywheel seal so that should help that leak.

I did nothing about the block borehole plug. Is this something worth going after?
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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL

[ftp2leta]

[ftp2leta]

[id]

Merci beaucoup Ben,

J'apprecie ton assistance.

Did you pull the plug, then sand the hole, then use JB Weld to create the seal between the plug and the side wall of the hole?

If so how did you remove the plug?

Ou...

Did you use JB Weld as a surface coating to seal the plug off?

Why do you recommend against using the felt ring?

Are you recommending that the front of the engine behind the flywheel be cleaned with Brake Cleaner?

Merci encore...
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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL

[ftp2leta]

[wavanagon]

[id]

The D-day has now come and gone and some questions still remain. I was able to turn the key yesterday afternoon and have the Green Dragon return to life. However, it knocks at low rpms, backfires when coasting, and the red temperature light on the gauge is blinking steadily at times.

I did sit with the engine at 2000 rpm for twenty minutes to start with. Now I want to get some city kilometers on it, prior to the highway miles necessary to go camping.

Here are some action shots from the final re-assembly this weekend, in case anyone is interested, or finds them useful...

Shot of a top trans-block connection bolt. Had no washer. Is this normal?

Power steering mount installed

And the power steering pump in place. I was surprised that neither V-belt had an adjusting mechanism. The Vanagon book that comes with the van says that insufficient tightness on the V-belts can be a cause of the red blinking light. I'll have to check this.

Fuel injection seat on the heads

And now with the gasket Gasgacinched in place:)

And with the fuel injectors bolted in place

The electrical connection at the bottom rear of the engine

And the one on the bottom left side

The distributor re-connected

Air intake assembly re-attached.

Electrical re-connection

Idle control re-connected. Now this was disconnected by the PO when I got the van. Is this the likely culprit for the backfires and knocking?

Power steering pump re-wired

Dipstick tube with plenty of sealant on it prior to insertion

Oil filler flange connection with the gasket installed. The old gasket was a pain to scrape off. I should have done this with the engine on the bench.

And now with the oil filler tube bolted in place.

Exhaust shroud re-bolted on

Expansion tank with the new outlet hose in place

Oil breather tower hose connection at the air assembly. It was an absolute pain to get this hose onto this nipple. I only managed to get it halfway on after applying thread lube to the nipple and warming up the hose in some boiling water. The old hose was shredded. I wonder if this change is causing my knocking and backfiring?

Shot with the top part of the engine put back together

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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL

[id]

A couple of additional things I learned while re-assembling the engine.

1. Don't forget to install the sealing rings in the thermostat housing. This is where the sensors plug in. You'll leak coolant everywhere when filling the cooling system.

2. When installing the exhaust manifolds, start with the rear one. It is the trickier of the two and you need the room to move.
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'Green Dragon' 1986 Westy GL