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How about another aux battery question?!
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photogdave
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: How about another aux battery question?! Reply with quote

Seems to be a popular subject these days! Laughing
Is it feasible to install a temporary 2nd battery setup? I would love to have the 2nd battery for camping this summer but hopefully this fall I'm going to finally take out the interior and do the bodywork and sound proofing/installation etc.
Also since my van is a diesel-to-gas conversion, the main battery is in the engine compartment and there is no relay under the driver seat. Is this the correct item I need?:
http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=1738
Thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like what you need.I used the one from go westy.easy to install.about twice the price as the busdepot one,but looks like it is a little better quality to me. just wired up 2 aux. batteries,battery tender and a 800 watt inverter to mine.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at the GoWesty kits but they seem to be meant only for non-diesel vans with the main battery up front. The Bus Depot one is listed under diesel vans. I don't know enough about this to tell the difference so I guess I'll email both of them.
But I guess what I'm really getting at - is this too much work to do before a major overhaul of the interior? Am I going to have to take it all out again when I take out the cabinets etc? Can this even be done with my battery setup?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would have a much easier time putting your second battery under the rear seat. Easy, direct cabling from the existing battery, and much greater flexibility regarding battery sizes.

If you're intent on using a simple relay to combine the batteries, don't waste your money on any of the ready-made setups you're discussing. You can put those components together from any FLAPS for half the cost. Better yet, go to a wrecker and find a relay from a VW that has the number 53 painted on top. That's a 40A relay, much heavier-duty than the 30A ones you will get from the FLAPS or either of those online retailers. Use 8 or 10 AWG wire at the smallest (gauge numbers are inversely related to size). Wiring the relay to close with the engine running is child's play. You will find many threads here with diagrams of how to duplicate the OEM method. The trigger wires used by VW to do this are also right there in the engine bay, the starter trigger wire and the alternator exciter wire.

But better yet, get a Yandina or some other battery combiner that will do a better job of managing the connection, with less restriction on charge amps between the batteries. If your second battery of choice is an AGM or gel-cell, any of the sealed lead-acid types, the feature of the Yandina (and possibly others, I dunno) that regulates charge to the second battery to a lower setting appropriate to sealed LA's is important to have for maximum battery life.

None of this should preclude your being able to redo your interior while leaving the battery install in place.
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McVanagon
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been dying to post this simple Yandina diagram, but there have been a lack of battery threads unil recently.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I feel better now.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great! Did you draw that? Maybe you should send a copy to Yandina.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys! That is exactly the kind of info I was hoping for. Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McVanagon wrote:
I've been dying to post this simple Yandina diagram, but there have been a lack of battery threads unil recently.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I feel better now.


What does the switch do? Is that a 3 position switch or just an on-off switch?

Thanks in advance
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McVanagon
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
That's great! Did you draw that? Maybe you should send a copy to Yandina.

Thanks, I threw it together to help out a board member member via email a while back. There wasn't a thread, so it didn't get posted.
woggs1 wrote:
What does the switch do? Is that a 3 position switch or just an on-off switch?

It's better than either, it's BOTH! It is an off/on/automatic.

Leave the green alone, and the Yandina is automatic.
Ground the green, and you turn the Yandina off (forced separation)
Put 12v to the green, and you turn the Yandina on (forced combined)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by McVanagon on Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply and pic, it is all crystal clear now.

Another question, when you install the yandina, is there any use for the old relay? Would it be a good idea to set it up to only allow the refrigerator to run on 12V when the engine is running, and battery charging? That way I can't accidentally drain my aux battery when camped, or stopped along the way. What are others doing?

Thanks
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just received my Aux Battery Kit from GoWesty yesterday, and I am sending it back today.

I have been reading this post...and other aux bat posts...for the last few days, and the merits of a Yandina Battery Combiner finally clicked in my very non-electrical head.

McVanagon - Does that switch come with the Yandina or do I need to buy one to copy your setup? If I need to buy one could you tell me what it is specifically called. It looks like it says:
16A 12V DC
16A 24V DC
ON OFF ON
on the side. Is that all the info I need to find one if it doesn't come with the Yandina?

Thx for sharing, all.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:40 am    Post subject: Yandina Queston???? Reply with quote

So, if your primary starting battery is dead or weak, can you "force" the Yandina on and use the aux to start the engine. Built in jumper cables? This is assuming that that cables between the batteries are capable of carrying that kind of current and that you have the right type of battery.
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McVanagon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texxxxx wrote:
McVanagon - Does that switch come with the Yandina or do I need to buy one to copy your setup? If I need to buy one could you tell me what it is specifically called. It looks like it says:
16A 12V DC
16A 24V DC
ON OFF ON
on the side. Is that all the info I need to find one if it doesn't come with the Yandina?

Thx for sharing, all.

Switch not included. I bought it at Radio Shack. It is SPDT (single pole, double throw) three position switch with a center off position. Radio Shack has several different styles.
This one looks like the one I picked up.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?produc...age=search

The switch isn't that important, without it your Yandina will just be stuck in automatic mode. I'm sure there are times you will need to permanantly combine or seperate them. I just haven't needed it. I installed it because It was a function that I might need someday, and the switch was only $3.00.

Good Luck!
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McVanagon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: Yandina Queston???? Reply with quote

montykeel wrote:
So, if your primary starting battery is dead or weak, can you "force" the Yandina on and use the aux to start the engine. Built in jumper cables? This is assuming that that cables between the batteries are capable of carrying that kind of current and that you have the right type of battery.


No, no, no. Disconnect the Yandina and use jumper cables. I wouldn't want a thirsty starter motor pulling all those amps through that little device.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, just so I've got it straight in my head, this is what I'll need:
Auxiliary battery: preferably deep cycle sealed lead-acid
Battery Combiner: Yandina or similar
Battery Maintainer: Battery Tender or similar to act as float charger
If I simply follow the diagrams I am basically connecting the aux battery to the same circuit as the driving battery, so everything that runs off the driving battery will now run off the aux. When I turn off the ignition the power will automatically switch to the aux battery?
If I want to run any 120V gadgets like patio lights or stereos then I can wire an inverter to the aux battery.
Am I on the right track?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is my understanding that you will want batteries that are close to the same age and amps, when using a dual battery set up. I thought that if you had an older battery in either position (starting or house) it would constantly be running down the other battery because of its more inefficient state, and the batteries would be trying to equalize charge. Am I way off base on thinking this?

thanks.

Glenn
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bump for the last two questions!
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McVanagon wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Well, I'm still in the process of installing my aux bat. Problem is...I suk at it...lol. Last week when I replaced my cigarette lighter with a 12V outlet, I manged to weld my voltmeter to my battery and blew three fuses. Oh well, I'm an old dog and this is a new trick. I am patient and will persevere.

I have my Odyssey, Yandina and Blue Seas fuse box...I am looking for a fuse holder to put between the battery and the fuse box. I see that glass one in your picture above. A couple questions. What brand is it? What amperage fuse do you recommend? Blue Seas says max 125A. What gauge wire? Blue Seas says 4-6. What gauge should the ground wire on my Odyssey be?

Also...one thing I don't understand...if the Yandina only comes with 10 gauge wire, why is it neccessary to put heavier wire between the aux battery and the fuse box?

What about something like this for between the battery and fuse box?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CIRCUIT-BREAKER-100-AMP-WITH-S...m153.l1262

Thx-Electronically Challenged
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texxxxx wrote:
I have my Odyssey, Yandina and Blue Seas fuse box...I am looking for a fuse holder to put between the battery and the fuse box. I see that glass one in your picture above. A couple questions. What brand is it? What amperage fuse do you recommend? Blue Seas says max 125A. What gauge wire? Blue Seas says 4-6. What gauge should the ground wire on my Odyssey be?


I used 8ga for everything.
- main box to aux box
- aux box ground
- aux battery to amp (which is what that little "glass" fuse holder is for, *its actually plastic*)

I picked three of them up at radio shack for:
- Main battery to Yandina (40a)
- Aux battery to aux fuse panel (40a)
- Aux battery to amp (40a)
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?produc...age=search

I like using bigger wire whenever I can. I just thought it would be nice to have as much conductivity as possible going between both battery boxes....

Here is a thread with a few more pics of my install that show some of the other fuse holders.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246921
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

photogdave wrote:
If I simply follow the diagrams I am basically connecting the aux battery to the same circuit as the driving battery, so everything that runs off the driving battery will now run off the aux. When I turn off the ignition the power will automatically switch to the aux battery?

If I want to run any 120V gadgets like patio lights or stereos then I can wire an inverter to the aux battery.
Am I on the right track?


The Yandina allows your aux battery to be charged when the charging system is active. They are only on the same circuit when the engine is running (or when you have a charger on the main battery, or when you "force combine" them) otherwise, they are two completly different circuits. When the batteries are isolated (engine off), they are two different circuits. Your Aux batt will only run what you have put on that circuit.

In my van I have my stereo, interior lights, and cigar lighter (1986+ fuse #3) and my amp running off the aux battery. They will always run off the aux battery no matter if the car is running or not. Everything else still runs off the main battery no matter what. You are only charging both batteries when the car is on. If I ever blow the fuse that runs the radio (and god forbid, not have a 15a handy), I can "force combine" the Yandina, and it will always get juice from the aux.

Inverters? I don't have one (yet). There are plenty of inverters in this room, and they will have to chime in. I just know that there are only a few things you cant' do with 12v, and they really kill a aux battery. Try to run as many things off 12v as you can.
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