Ever done before? Porsche 924 or 944 engine in Vanagon?

[TJC]

Resurrection Time!

This swap is interesting to me since we also have a '87 924S that is set up for autocross, etc. and it sure would be nice to tow it behind a Vanagon...we presently have an '81 Westy, but would probably find a later watercooled one to make the project a bit easier.

The 944/968 engines are plentiful and reliable when properly maintained...yes I am aware of the routine FOES, but I have the necessary tools to do it myself...I'm just curious if the other bellhousings that came on various 091 transmissions are compatible with the back of this engine. Worse comes to worse we'll fab an adaptor plate.

Considering what used 944's go for these days, it may be worthwhile to pick one up and get the brakes for a conversion at the same time....maybe even a Turbo !

Any thoughts or comments out there?

[Zeitgeist 13]

Holy sheepshank Batman, I was visiting the local Pick-a-Part today and saw a very nice 944 with complete engine and was just thinking about this swap! Sambanistas are sucking ideas out of my mind...eerie I'm gonna mix another drink to mull this over.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Captain Pike]

dizzy won't fit
_________________
LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current.......................

[BenT Syncro]

1) The 5-cyl engines used in SA are VW engines. Although I suppose since VW owns Audi, you can call one or the other.

2) The SA bellhousing for the T3 will accept the Audi engines and the 944 engines. Remember who builds 924/944/968? Yes, Audi has been building them for Porsche.

3) I would just as soon forget the I-4 from the 924. It's a 2-liter normally aspirated engine. Even in an LT truck, they put Audi logo valve covers. The ones in the LT are detuned for longevity and torque. You can probably pull a tree stump but at some 78hp, you'll not have a lot of joy on the freeway. Maybe the one in the 924 is slightly better on HP but not torque. Have am LT35 with said engine in San Francisco.

4) Why not a 928 engine? It's twice the 944 engine. Hmmm... Twice the maintenance. Have you ever seen the timing belt in that sucker? Looks very cool but no thanks for me. They are not cheap to keep. Had a gray market 928 for than a decade. Having changed water pump and timing belt, drove me back to VW's. Before they started selling rebuilt pumps, it cost me $389 for a new one vs. $45 for my 5-series bimmer on the same day. That afternoon, I bought a VW Fox wagon for $260. The whole car. Been back to VW's since.

5) The Carrera 3.2 has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the Wasserboxer & aircooled Vanagons. In simple English, it bolts right on. If you can get over the cost of an engine, pmail me. I have the kit right out of Marty's Syncro called Range Panzer. The engine went in someone's 914-6. Kit is in my garage. Martin's company MSDS, Inc. Used to sell kits to install 3.2 Carrera engines and Chevy V8's in Vanagons. The later only with G50 trans. Remember those 20 or so Vanagons that Porsche built back in the day? Marty just copied what they did. Not too many takers especially since cheap Subie engines started popping up all over the place.

Hope that covers what I had to answer. Can't read the thread when you're typing from one of these darn fruitPhones.

BenT

[TJC]

BenT, are you sure that the 944 engine will bolt to the SA bellhousing? I've been searching over on some of the Porsche forums regarding Audi engine swaps and the best I can gather so far is that the older 2.0L 924 engine has the same bolt pattern as the Audi's (no surprise there given it's history), but the Porsche designed 924S, 944, 968 has a different pattern. I know that the bellhousings used in those types are different as well.

If indeed the 944 engine will bolt up to the SA bellhousing it would sure save a lot of fabrication since an adaptor isn't readily available for the 091/094 transaxle.

I'm familiar with the B32 Vanagon and haven't ruled out a Porsche 6, even though they are $$$! Since we already have an aircooled Westy I wouldn't have to search for the right waterpumper to convert!

In any event short of trying to run down to Phoenix to try a 944 bellhousing on the back of the correct model Audi engine (one that will bolt to the SA bellhousing, (which I believe are the 5 cylinder "north/south" mounted engines) in some boneyard I'll continue to glean what I can.

Thank's so much for your input, and I may pm you about the 6 cylinder kit!

[axeman]

not trying to hi jack this intresting thread, but if you want cheap, reliable, very strong, simple and well built inline 4, with bags of tourque, and can be turned with ease (and stay reliable) then you may want too concider one of these?

neil
_________________
1957, 1200cc 30hp, big window, delux beetle, swedish modle, now living in france
1991 holdsworth villa 3, 2.1, uk van, now sold
1991 syncro doka uk van was 2.1 now B230, out with the b230 and in with a 1.8 20v, and 4 doors
1987 syncro westy was 1.6 jx now ej22

[GrindGarage]

BMW m10?
_________________
-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

[axeman]

no any one else care for a guess?
_________________
1957, 1200cc 30hp, big window, delux beetle, swedish modle, now living in france
1991 holdsworth villa 3, 2.1, uk van, now sold
1991 syncro doka uk van was 2.1 now B230, out with the b230 and in with a 1.8 20v, and 4 doors
1987 syncro westy was 1.6 jx now ej22

[BenT Syncro]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Volvo B20
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[BenT Syncro]

"What's did I win?!"

Boy my Grammer is on dee rockin' chair toad-day.

[Zeitgeist 13]

Kelsey maybe...but not the grammar
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[axeman]

well done, swedish power plat, 2316cc (b230) engine too how and where do i send the prize too?

simple and strong engines, a bit like me

neil
_________________
1957, 1200cc 30hp, big window, delux beetle, swedish modle, now living in france
1991 holdsworth villa 3, 2.1, uk van, now sold
1991 syncro doka uk van was 2.1 now B230, out with the b230 and in with a 1.8 20v, and 4 doors
1987 syncro westy was 1.6 jx now ej22

[Christopher Schimke]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Oops, yeah the B20 is the old pushrod design--also quite stout
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[TJC]

[BenT Syncro]

[TJC]

Yeah, I can relate to the perfect part, I'm the same way !

That's what I'm finding out, so I was also considering using the 924 Turbo engine...Please hold down the laughter and don't flame me too badly...but they can be made somewhat reliable and healthy...really! I mean the Vanagon isn't a daily driver anyway, I think we only put about a 1000 miles on it in the last year.

In any event, the quest goes on.

BenT, you've been PM'd!

[BenT Syncro]

[TJC]

Well I've done some simple measurements on my 924S 2.5 engine and I'm inclined not to use this as a swap since it would involve a fair amount of fabrication to satisfy the length of the engine and accomodate the sensors on the bellhousing, etc. Too bad, as this family of Porsche engines are reliable (when properly maintained) and depending on the particuliar engine, produce great torque at suitable a RPM.

So, the easy way to have a watercooled inline Porsche engine transplant is to use the 2.0L 924 engine, ie. Audi 100, VW LT35, etc. This would need the SA bellhousing and engine mount system and it would be basically a bolt in set up.
So, does anyone have a SA bellhousing and motor mount bar?

Of course my other consideration is using a Porsche 911 based engine.