Where to get a relief valve reamer?

[nsracing]

Alternative parts and prices will be inevitable. There has to be another source. Competition is always healthy. Offer a good product for the best price and let the chips fall where they may.

Same story with Betamax VS. VHS....IBM PC and Compatibles. I do not know anyone now not having compatible PCs.

It will only stagnate if people only use the same old shit and never really think outside of the box. So I think you got this one backwards.

[lostinbaja]

In that case, just buy one, send it to China and have it duplicated, then you can sell it for $3.00 bucks.
"Thinking out of the box" is developing another device or method, not copying or taking advantage of someone elses work.
_________________
Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
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[Jimmy111]

[nsracing]

If ball would have been better, the VW engineers had already done it.

The ball and seat would have been too much tooling to make it work. Not really cost effective.

The plunger design is fine.

One thing I will say though is I do NOT have to wait on someone to develop something. I have the freedom to make it at any time. That is the power of having machine tools.

[metalchomper]

The plunger allows for a progressive relief. The ball design is generally all or nothing. Nothing meaning no oil pressure.
_________________
Brett

Devil Dog Dubs

I live vicariously through me

'62 Beetle, "Zombie Mojo"
'68 Manx II "Conundrum"
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[SRP1]

I am not willing to get into the dynamics of how the ball operates, there seems to be some misinterpreted info in this thread about it. However I can say to Jimmy111 and metalchomper that you both have no supporting facts and or idea of how well the pressure relief ball works, and its benefits. However Jimmy111 your knowledge of the stock relief system is impressive to say the least.
Personally I have used and installed hundreds pressure relief balls in the type 1 without fail, I can not comment about the unit purchased by the samba member in this thread as Adrian sold him a bolt-in type unit, I would question the accuracy of that unit myself and I plan on inquiring about it with Adrian.
In my engines the case is machined and the seat is pressed in, along with drilling the new pressure relief hole that will control most any pump size and oil viscosity.
Also a note to Jimmy111, the ball seat is an air tight seal that will hold a vacuum. How’s that for accuracy.
I’m not posting this to change anyone’s opinion about modifying there oil relief and or bypass system; I’m past any oil control issues with my engines and don’t need nor care about any debate. Personally I feel VW did a fine job of developing a worthy system to say the least. However I just wanted put some light into this topic for those who question progress. To say if it needed to be done VW would have done is a little close minded in terms of modernizing and updating IMO, but very admirable to the purist for sure.

[Jimmy111]

Hi Steve.
I said that I havent seen a ball valve that works good in the Type-1 motor and It would not be an easy task to make a good system for it that does not require conciderable machining..

However. If you have a good system, I would be happy to see it

I like the VW system too. It is simple and it works. Most of the problems that that valve has would be a problem with any type of valve used.

VW in their later years was concerned with cost. and as you can see by the beetle, little changed over the entire 60 years that they were produced. It was an economy car that that was ment for mass sales and cheap price. But when they intorduced the type-4 it uses the same piston and almost the same valve chamber. VW was out to right all the wrongs in the type-1 but they did not change that valve .

[eserv]

The ball and spring conversion converts the system to a true dual relief. The oil is always directed through the cooler with this system and the oil pressure is adjustable with the new ball and spring. with the VW designed system the oil pressure is controlled by the oil pressure control valve ( flywheel end) and the oil pressure relief valve ( pulley end) controls whether there is enough pressure differential to force oil through the stock cooler.

[Clatter]

Holy Drag Up An Old Post Batman!

I never said anything about this conversion kit,
Because it didn't really work out like i had hoped it would.

But now that we are here....

The seat/sleeve thingie got pressed up onto my plunger bore as stated in the instructions.
My first drive around the block showed some really wacky readings on my pressure gauge.
The oil pressure was way, way high at start-up, and pegged the pressure gauge to max.
I immediately shut it down and tried re-seatng the sleeve thing.
Still the same.
I actually tried driving it, but at higher revs the light got turned on???
Anyhow,
Something was very, very wrong with the thing, so i went and got a couple of big taps and used them to grab the sleeve and yank it out of the plunger bore.
THe sleeve was knurled on the OD to hold it in place, so it buggered up my bore a bit on it's way out.

I ended up swapping out the case in order to fix my oil pressure issue, unfortunately.

I have respect for Adrian, and have seen several of his heads that looked very nice.
My experience with his pressure relief ball was less than satisfactory.
Your experience with it might be different,
but in my case (no pun intended) it ruined the bore.

Can't help but think that if it was really a hot item, you would see it more.
maybe some cases, like mine, are different enough that things don't line up correctly?
Not to slam on it, but if you are out of ideas, and going to try anything, and are willing to ditch the case if it doesn't work anyhow, maybe gamble the money?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

Oh, and Nick,
You said you could get me a reamer made up, but not if i was in a hurry...

Is five years enough?
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[eserv]

Well I am having trouble with overheating and low oil pressure at idle when hot! Reading everything I can about it!

[nsracing]

[aeromech]

Okay guys I'm gunna jump in here with my current problem. 1975 Type 4 FI that has low oil pressure when hot on the freeway (20psi) and an idiot light at idle. It's got 20W50 blend and a brand new (rebuilt) type 4 pump installed. I'm using a VDO 80 psi gauge with remote mounted dual pole sender.

I pulled the bypass plunger and then jammed it back up into the bore using a wood dowel and I could feel a lot of side slop so my plan is to use the two reamers I've barrowed from my engine builder to oversize the bore and straighten it out from being somewhat oval. Then my machinist will fab an oversized plunger .001 smaller than the largest reamer. In all the reading above in this thread I don't think I ever heard of anyone "making" an OS plunger.

The next thing is the spring. How can I measure the spring tension? I'm thinking of using a postal scale and compressing it to a certain amount to see a reading but that will not be in PSI so how can I do this?
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
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Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[modok]

I've made quite a few plungers, not for VW as haven't run out of good ones yet but it's a very simple thing to make. I agree .001 clearance is good.

most are 18mm?? so that is .708"
radius squared times 3.14 = area, so
about 0.3 square inches, lets say a third

So we can say the spring pressure divided by 0.3 is the PSI it takes to open.

Fifteen pounds spring takes about 45 to open.

That's just rough estimate for example.

[aeromech]

Well I at my machinist waiting in line. I got the reaming accomplished without any issues so all I have left is having the plunger made and checking the spring. The type 4 threaded plug is larger than the type 1 so I didn't cut any thread depth while reaming. Pics coming.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[aeromech]

Air routed to blow out shavings

First pass with this size reamer

Second pass with this one

_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[modok]

AH, 16mm i was a few mm off.
Also, speaking of this.

[aeromech]

When I have the plunger made should it look like this?

or not have the groove?

Also, should the spring tension be 15-19.4lbs at 39mm loaded length like table A says in the Bentley?
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Clatter]

IMHO, the springs are unlikely to wear out over time.

The only threat to them in my world is getting the wrong one in there somehow.
(Like one from a type 1 or something in there accidentally, plus, you never know what a PO will do)

Keep us posted on this. Watching closely...

Also, did you get one of those rebuilt T4 pumps from that guy in Europe?
Or did you have it done?

The T4 oil pump issue is still out there AFAIK.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[aeromech]

I bought a new (rebuilt) pump from a guy on the samba who had purchased it a few years ago and never installed it. The price was $95. He sent me the link to where he bought it originally and it looks like they still have them. Just having a hard time finding the link.

EDIT: Here it is:

http://www.evwparts.com/volkswagen/Type4OilPump.html
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound