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marcodelat
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brett Ross wrote:
I looked at the rod and yep i need to straighten that out and that spring you have in the pic i dont have one. where should i find one?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Might be wrong here, but isn't that return spring supposed to be hooked in a way that it runs in back of the rod?

Between the rod and the fan housing that is. - I believe it should be.
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mnussbau
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's toward the firewall side on my '74 convertible. Not sure it's even possible to install it the other way.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not possible to install the other way because if you did then the rod will rub against the case. right now i have a mark on the case from the rod rubbing. Just have to make sure that the rod doesnt touch the case that's all to it.
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Mudpump
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I hadn't read this thread. Ignorance is bliss. So I now see that the whole system was removed from my car. Probably the reason it takes so long to heat up when it's cold

Is it possible to install the whole thing (bar,spring,flaps) with the engine still on?

Is it worth the hassle and $$?. Meaning is it an issue with the engine life? I can deal with the car warming up longer

.
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SkrapMetal
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mudpump wrote:

Is it worth the hassle and $$?. Meaning is it an issue with the engine life? I can deal with the car warming up longer

.


The purpose of the thermostat and flaps is to keep the cold air from hitting the heads while the engine is cold. The pistons and the combustion chamber heat up rapidly, the pistons become tight 'cause the air is not being held back by the flaps, the wrist pins suffer too. The dome of the head heats fast, the outside edges of the chambers are cooling too fast, so something has to give...

Result? Cracked or warped heads. So yes, I would say it greatly reduces engine life.

Mudpump wrote:

Is it possible to install the whole thing (bar,spring,flaps) with the engine still on?


Yes, you can remove the shroud with the engine still in but you'll have to remove the decklid, manifolds, wiring, etc. You can remove the engine in 30 min, but I removed just my shroud in 30 min also.... take your pick.
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vw57drvr
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you look down at the top of the cylinder head, there is an area that passes all the way through. On of those areas has a piece of small sheet metal in it that is slotted. The rod goes through there. The rod is not straight, hence the need for the tin to be slotted.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mudpump wrote:
So I now see that the whole system was removed from my car.

The PO of my sedan also removed the whole system, though I knew this when I bought the car. Last weekend at the junkyard I managed to pick up the flaps, connecting link, and thermostat bracket for a total of $6. I still need the thermostat, rod, and spring. Will be another good project!
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Paul D
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to hijack this thread, and to not start a new topic I have a question.

From what I understand (which isn't always much) I need a different temperature rated thermostat for fuel injected. I don't see them in the classifieds, and don't want to go with the new fangled ones. What would be the possible problems if I went with the "common" style thermostat?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=284376

I am sure German engineering had its reasons for different type thermostats.

Hopefully I was just dreaming all of this up. Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonewso wrote:

Glen - do you have an image of the correct hole that the thermo rod goes through?

Pictures taken from Max Welton's website
The rod goes through this hole (with cutout):
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Russ Wolfe
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been getting a lot of calls lately for engine tin and thermostats.
I took inventory, and I am down to 4 good used thermostats.
When I strip an engine for parts, the thermostat is the one thing I am careful to save.
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BDSBSS23
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dang it!!! my old cylinder head had that but i threw it away. Maybe best to find another one.....
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brett Ross wrote:
dang it!!! my old cylinder head had that but i threw it away. Maybe best to find another one.....


What, the little metal plate?? I can send you one off a junk head.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can make those little air dams with some scrap and some tin snips.

Max
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Max Welton wrote:
You can make those little air dams with some scrap and some tin snips.

Max


Yes and for folks that worry about such things Bob Hoover has a nice how to on his blog covering just this topic,m how to make how to fasten cpmplete with his style of jargon........

Getting back to the original question of how to adjust with everything in place except the bellows and braket you'll notice the rod hanging down, with spring on its loaded to be full open, thats the spring on back of doghouse holding the the flaps open..........

OK screw the bellows on all the way and notice how it plugs into the braket so it must be indexed right.......... Now install the braket to where it just touchs the top of the bellows in that full open spring loaded position OK thats it tighten the bellows and you are done ...

The much maligned and misunderstood thermostat hardly ever fails and when it does it has two failsafes built right in ....... If the bellows fails it goes to full open....... If the rod breaks it goes full open

Years ago people started removing these and discarding telling lies about how they can burn up your engine the truth is they were too stupid to understand the operation of and how to reinstall them, but thats another story..... Gene Berg sells some of the parts Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mudpump wrote:
I wish I hadn't read this thread. Ignorance is bliss. So I now see that the whole system was removed from my car. Probably the reason it takes so long to heat up when it's cold

Is it possible to install the whole thing (bar,spring,flaps) with the engine still on?

Is it worth the hassle and $$?. Meaning is it an issue with the engine life? I can deal with the car warming up longer

.


my answer..it depends
If you have the system on the car I would keep it on and maintained. If you don't have the system AND you live in a warmer climate i.e West Coast or Fla I wouldn't spend the money on buying a system or bother dropping the engine solely to put it on. It's benefit is during cold weather. I wouldn't bother with it unless you live in an area where it's frequently below freezing.
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68Bug-lite
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birddog1 wrote:
you live in a warmer climate i.e West Coast or Fla I wouldn't spend the money on buying a system or bother dropping the engine solely to put it on. It's benefit is during cold weather. I wouldn't bother with it unless you live in an area where it's frequently below freezing.


I'm not too sure about that. I live in southern california, (not like the Sahara, but well above freezing) and noticed after restoring my flaps and thermostat, that the beige goop/ snot that was constantly filling my breather lines for years just disapeared. Also, those directional vanes in the shroud stop a good four or so inches above the cylinder walls, creating a possible free for all in the direction the cool air will flow. I have to believe that those thermostat shutters maintain the path to the needed areas as intended by the VW engineers.

Peace, Greg
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jamesdagg
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They sell them here but are out of stock now>

http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/search.php?substring=thermostat

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

birddog1 wrote:
my answer..it depends
If you have the system on the car I would keep it on and maintained. If you don't have the system AND you live in a warmer climate i.e West Coast or Fla I wouldn't spend the money on buying a system or bother dropping the engine solely to put it on. It's benefit is during cold weather. I wouldn't bother with it unless you live in an area where it's frequently below freezing.


The above is a perfect example of why each one of you asking questions here should take the time to educate yourselves by reading the manuals .. The thermostat was on all the cars for a reason even cars destined for warm climates.. Perhaps second guessing the engineers that designed the product is a better way though???

Anyone telling you to run without the thermostat needs to be put on ignore Sad Would you remove the thermostat from your wifes new Buick if you lived in Florida??? I thought so. Very Happy

Jim-
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
birddog1 wrote:
my answer..it depends
If you have the system on the car I would keep it on and maintained. If you don't have the system AND you live in a warmer climate i.e West Coast or Fla I wouldn't spend the money on buying a system or bother dropping the engine solely to put it on. It's benefit is during cold weather. I wouldn't bother with it unless you live in an area where it's frequently below freezing.


The above is a perfect example of why each one of you asking questions here should take the time to educate yourselves by reading the manuals .. The thermostat was on all the cars for a reason even cars destined for warm climates.. Perhaps second guessing the engineers that designed the product is a better way though???

Anyone telling you to run without the thermostat needs to be put on ignore Sad Would you remove the thermostat from your wifes new Buick if you lived in Florida??? I thought so. Very Happy

Jim-




Totally agree. I have had several bugs over the years, starting with a 56 model. I now have a 69 bug that I have to redo the engine in because the PO removed the tstat and all the flaps in the housing. It will go back to the complete stock cooling system even though I live in Arizona.
Fred
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oibovveroi
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i met a old vw guy the other day,the grandfather of a guy at work.
turns out he had THE vw shop in town years ago and now he just putters around with them.
we were talking and i told him im getting all the parts together to do a complete 1600dp stock setup for my bug and had just got the flaps and thermostat.
well,would you guess he said "you dont need them".
the thing about them he said is that he found when they failed that they would leave the flaps wide open to the point that it would leave the air flow something or other (im A.D.D.)and so you shouldnt use them.
well,im going to give it a shot and see what happens because i figure out of the people that drive these things and come here online,most use them and swear by them.

maybe we should do a poll or something to gauge how many use them.
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