| Author |
Message |
71sbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
 Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
well, I was told usually about 15% drivetrain loss so I was expecting around 100-105hp at the wheels. At 88hp that's 27% drivetrain loss which I think is too much. But I will dyno it again after I tune it well and put the new trans on.
It was running fine until about 5200rpm, 5200 to 5500 you could tell it was slowing down and 5500-6000rpm took forever in 3rd ... (I'd hit 5500rpm before the 1000ft and would barely be at 5700-5800 by the 1/4 ...) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jimmy111
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Wyoming
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well there is the 5252 rule. If your intake velocity is too low, you will lose HP at the same time your torque and HP cross at 5252 RPM.
That is usually either insufficient or bad porting. Your valve lift and duration seem ok so blame it on the heads. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
71sbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| also, that wouldn't be valve float right, I only have single hi rev springs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jimmy111
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Wyoming
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| If you do have hi rev single springs they should be able to reve a little faster. But valve float happens suddenly and you just lose power |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Terry Cloyd
Banned
Joined: March 23, 2004
Posts: 2218
Location: Valley Center "SO CAL"
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 71sbeetle wrote: |
| RIS wrote: |
What are the lift and duration numbers for that cam?
What size vents and jets in the 44 IDFs? |
425 lift 270 duration
I think the venturis are 32mm and jets not sure anymore for the mains, the idle I think are 55 and air I think 180, I'll have to check tomorrow. where do I look for the idles and mains again ? I forgot |
With that cam I would run 40mmX 35mm heads with a oval port 
Always check profile
http://www.miniman82.4t.com
Occupation: Sailor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RIS
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2003
Posts: 3043
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
|
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
16.00 sounds about right to me with that cam & transaxle in a full weight car.
Ported heads with dual springs and 1.25:1 rockers are what I'd recommend to get over 5500rpm and into the 15's.
Take some air out of the rear tires too, 30psi? What is the 60 foot time?
150 mains are probably on the fat side as the engine is now, I'd try a 135-140 and see if it picks up on the mid & top-end...
_________________
Richard Sedoris - VW Performance & Machine - Youngstown, OH
http://rismachine.tumblr.com/
YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCfTBCG4I61iVm_ROc8OAuOQ
Instagram: @rismachine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
71sbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
alright cool, I'm going to see, I might get a Zeitronix wideband system (which will only delay getting heads even more ......) since I already have the 02 sensor bung on my header.
I did 7 runs, here they are in order:
Run #: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7
R/T: .458 / .390 / .558 / .284 / .234 / .125 / .209
60': 2.209 / 2.932 / 2.347 / 2.293 / 2.197 / 3.156 / 2.264
330: 6.415 / 7.315 / 6.974 / 6.529 / 6.434 / 7.796 / 6.475
1/8: 10.091 / 11.003 / 10.779 / 10.194 / 10.078 / 11.520 / 10.120
MPH: 66.25 / 66.34 / 64.67 / 66.64 / 67.08 / 66.07 / 67.06
1000: 13.325 / 14.227 / 14.066 / 13.405 / 13.274 / 14.756 / 13.373
1/4: 16.195 / 17.022 / 16.886 / 16.218 / 16.052 / 17.602 / 16.233
MPH: 75.96 / 79.71 / 79.54 / 79.33 / 80.27 / 77.20 / 78.36
Notes:
Run #1: As is, filters on, used 4th gear
Run #2: 1st gear popped out during launch, used 1st, didn't use 4th
Run #3: Mis-shift 2nd gear, used 4th
Run #4: As is, no hard launch, used 4th
Run #5: Air filters off, used 4th
Run #6: Air filters off, 1st gear popped at launch, shifted in 2nd right away
Run #7: Air filters off, used 4th |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7393
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Your 60' times are not good. Play with your air pressure as suggested and rpm's at launch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
57 Rag
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1145
Location: Paradise
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 71sbeetle wrote: |
| also, that wouldn't be valve float right, I only have single hi rev springs |
Don't quite get that...single springs will get those babies to float quicker.
Yeah, your 60's aren't so hot. If you're gonna be taking her down the strip that many times on a normal basis, hell even rare, you seriously need a trans. Not only will you not blow it up but your times will improve drastically.
_________________
57 Ragtop
84x94 86C
IDAs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
71sbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was asking if maybe the power dieing so early was because I dont have dual springs ?
I have a new KCR trans just waiting to be put in, I got it a couple of weeks ago  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
57 Rag
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1145
Location: Paradise
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 71sbeetle wrote: |
I was asking if maybe the power dieing so early was because I dont have dual springs ?
I have a new KCR trans just waiting to be put in, I got it a couple of weeks ago |
BASTED!!! I want one! Got 3rd and 4th in there? Dude, delete this post, put that thing in, then come back in here with a thread!
_________________
57 Ragtop
84x94 86C
IDAs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
71sbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
lol !
it's a 4.12, stock 1st 2nd and 3rd, and 0.82 4th gear. Remember, car is daily driven It's the Superstreet Plus
Current trans is same 1-4 but 3.88 R&P |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
71sbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
did the F11 that I found mean anything ?
Also the 175 that I found, are those the air ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
57 Rag
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1145
Location: Paradise
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 71sbeetle wrote: |
did the F11 that I found mean anything ?
Also the 175 that I found, are those the air ? |
What do you mean "found"? The F-11 are the emulsion tubes which holds the main and air jets. Its job is to mix the fuel from the mains with air coming in from the air jets. You know the diff between airs and mains right? The 175 that you "found" should have a smooth round head where if it was a main it would have a tapered, hexagon like head. I don't think you'd have a 175 main there though. Anyway leave the jets alone. Sounds like its running right if your taking her down the track and all.
_________________
57 Ragtop
84x94 86C
IDAs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
71sbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
lol, well someone had asked what jets I had I do not know the 44IDF carb at all, so that's why I wasn't sure if the numbers I had seen (aka found lol) meant something or not. So now I know:
F11 emulsion tubes
175 air correction
150 main jets
55 idle jets
btw the jetting was done by Chico on the dyno |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Arnolds64
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 724
|
| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: I have the same engine. |
|
|
| 71sbeetle wrote: |
lol, well someone had asked what jets I had I do not know the 44IDF carb at all, so that's why I wasn't sure if the numbers I had seen (aka found lol) meant something or not. So now I know:
F11 emulsion tubes
175 air correction
150 main jets
55 idle jets
btw the jetting was done by Chico on the dyno |
I am the guy that pm'd you about how cool it runs.
About your performance. Like I told you I have a 110 Engle - 430/280 which is slightly larger than yours. I P&P'd and open the chambers on my 043's. It will hit the 5400 limiter I have on it in a flash in 1st and 2nd. Before I stroked this engine it was 1641 with a stock crank, 120 Engle and the same heads and carbs with 28 vents . I was told it had a C/W crank but it did not come to find out. I had the same rotor limiter in it and thought it was not working. Come to find out I could not hit it. Anyway it was all over below 5400 and I believe it was the heads. You could feel the 120 come on but only for a split second and it was done.
So the plugs look nice and tan/brown? Those jets seem to sound a little rich RSI says? Of course I am only running 40's with 34 vents. That maybe the reason for the larger mains and idles?
I think the only thing you have that is missing is the heads. The 043's valves are shrowded very badly. They take up all the room in the chambers. You would probably run better with stock valves sizes. This has been said many times. Pull the heads and get out the Dremel. I did the Cal-look P&P and Chamber work.
Can you pull away and roll on the power with out dumping the clutch and turn the tires easily? I can and with 225 x 60's on it. I just got rid of a 97 Mustang GT Auto that ran 14.7. I know this little Bug would run with it.
_________________
64 Bug, White, 2017, Dual Weber 44's, Engle 130/Engle lifters, Home P&P'd 40X35 heads, CB 4340 nitrided crank, Eagle knock off H Beam 5.5" rods, Lowering Beam, Rancho Trans, Traction Bar. 225X60's rear, 145's front on Porsche Chrome Nipple Wheels. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
71sbeetle
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
well I ended up getting the heads from Chico, 043 with 40x35.5 P&Pd mini D ports, matched manifolds along with a set of 1.25 "Rhino" rocker arms
Right now yes my plugs are perfect, in a couple of month when I can afford it I will get a Zeitronix AF meter and tune it better
I can spin the tires very easily (195s) and even second if I try, in the rain I can't go in 1st I have to roll off in 2nd |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Arnolds64
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 724
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: Was just running out of breathe. |
|
|
So it sounds allot like mine down low but just sounds like it runs out of breathe. The Mini D's should take care of that. Don't be suprised if you need to re-jet because of the difference in airflow. I have a bung and a dented Oxy sensor with my Berg header and a gauge. I just need to hook it up to see if it works. It seems like it never ends.
_________________
64 Bug, White, 2017, Dual Weber 44's, Engle 130/Engle lifters, Home P&P'd 40X35 heads, CB 4340 nitrided crank, Eagle knock off H Beam 5.5" rods, Lowering Beam, Rancho Trans, Traction Bar. 225X60's rear, 145's front on Porsche Chrome Nipple Wheels. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fredster
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2007
Posts: 303
Location: Ipswich, UK
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| gerico wrote: |
Repeat after me:
"The power is in the heads, the power is in the heads, the power is in the heads,......................." |
Tired of reading this on just about every post re heads. The power is in the heads AND carbs AND cam AND exhaust AND compression ratio AND displacement, etc, etc.
Baffles me why people always single out the heads as the power provider... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
57 Rag
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1145
Location: Paradise
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fredster wrote: |
| gerico wrote: |
Repeat after me:
"The power is in the heads, the power is in the heads, the power is in the heads,......................." |
Tired of reading this on just about every post re heads. The power is in the heads AND carbs AND cam AND exhaust AND compression ratio AND displacement, etc, etc.
Baffles me why people always single out the heads as the power provider... |
You're right to an extent. But I agree with Gerico, because that is where you will have the most to gain and lose. You can run all types of carbs and just jet and choke it. Exhaust, once you get a header there isn't much difference as to which one you get. With displacement, you choke it off and you won't see a huge difference. On the other hand, you throw a set of heads on any motor you will notice a difference and wake that baby up.
_________________
57 Ragtop
84x94 86C
IDAs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
