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Wideband Results
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Hella-Buggin'
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:47 pm    Post subject: Wideband Results Reply with quote

So I just rented the Wideband A/F monitor form AC.net

Here's my initial findings:

2110 w110 40x35.5
Dual 40 IDF's w/ 32 Vents.

52/145/180

Way too lean during slight acceleration. Popped and bucked starting around 2500
Action taken: increased Idle jets to 55's

55/145/180

Idle progression better. Hovered around 12.5-13.5
started to lean out around 3200 at about 1/2 throttle 14.7-15.5

Under full throttle, richened back up to 11-12.

I was thinking of increasing the Air Jet up to about 210
and seeing if that leans out the WOT & also brings in the mains
a little earlier to smooth out the idle/main transition.

Any suggestions?
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Eaallred
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Wideband Results Reply with quote

You're not "leaning out" at 1/2 throttle.

Jet the engine at wide open throttle only. Do not attempt to jet the engine anywhere else otherwise you'll shoot yourself in the foot when you do go to full throttle.

Full throttle is your worst case scenario. Jet for that, and you'll be fine through the rest of the driving scenario's.

At part throttle, doing a light cruise, 16 to 17:1 on the gauge is normal.

Jet your engine to run at 12.75:1 at Wide open throttle. I put it in third gear and take it from idle all the way up (on a deserted road, or a freeway onramp). Have someone watch the a/f meter and the tach to see when it runs richer or leaner and change the appropriate jet. Up to 2000-2500 rpm is the idle jet, from there, up to 4500-ish is the main, and above that is the air jet.

Jet for full throttle, let it go where it wants everywhere else.

Good luck with the jetting!
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a log to post? John @ aircooled.net is helpful with reading these. As Eric suggested get on an onramp and put the car in 3rd and hit the record button and then go to full throttle and record the session all the way up. Then download the log with the software on tuneyourengine.com Probably want high12's, low 13's across the graph at wide open throttle. At partial throttle it is fine to have 15-17 AF readings.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Wideband Results Reply with quote

don't try to "solve" the transition problem by making it too rich at low throttle settings (bigger idle jet). Keep the 52s in there and play with the airs. You may need 210 or even 220 airs to help this out. Play with it. Even take the airs OUT (effectively making them 300s) to see what it does. You may be able to get away with 50s or even 47s if you get the mains working properly.

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Hella-Buggin'
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the feedback. I should also note that I'm running a SVDA
with pulled and plugged vacuum timed at 30 degrees..

I have been trying to get this thing properly jetted forever.
I had the 52 idles in and have tried every combination to try and get rid of this damn flat spot in the transition, which I at least now know is due to a lean condition. I've tried every jet combo from 125-160 mains and 180 -22- airs and float levels from 11.5 down to 9mm. Nothing seems to help that flat spot with the 52 idles. Some move it around slightly in the rpm range and some are undriveable but all result in a compromise. This engine has also always run hot.

I'd hat to have to put the 52's back in because it's such a PITA to pull the carbs but if you all agree that's what needs to be done I'll do it.
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Midwest aircooled
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What emmulsion tubes are you running? If you cant get the power band smooth, you may need a different emmulsion tube. Different tubes give enrichment at different rpms. Look in the Weber book, they are all broken down. Usually I end up with F-7 tubes in dual 40 IDF setups. If you have F-11s in there now, thats probably your problem. F-7s give more low and mid range enrichment.

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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good articles on transition and float settings-keep working on it.

http://www.carburetorclinic.com/tech_articles.htm
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Hella-Buggin'
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I switched down to the 52 idles... 140 main 220 air
Here's the results:

12.1 at idle at 800 rpms
1/4 throttle 15 at 2000 rpms
wot on freeway... starts at 11 then evens out at about 13.2

So based on the playing around I've done so far,
would it be correct to assume that a larger air would help
bring in the mains earlier to help with the transition as well
as help lean out the top?

What size should I try?
Any other tips?


Last edited by Hella-Buggin' on Thu May 15, 2008 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hella-Buggin'
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I took John's advice and pulled the air jets out completely.
Interesting results:

52 Idle, 140 Main, No Airs (300)

Idles at 12.1 800 RPMs
1/4 throttle at 14 (was 15)
wot 14.7

Freeway cruise at 65 sits at 14.2

So I'm guessing I need to maybe bump up the main
to 145 and go with something like a 260 air.
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mharney
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, 52/145/220 oughta be it. Your floats may need adjustment too.

Next time go fill up with exxon/mobil fuel and watch it change. They are the only ones I know of that aren't using an Ethanol blend yet, though California's 5.7% minimum mandate in 2004 may have changed even that holdout. Ethanol blends will require bigger jets. The fuel these days is sucking bad. I've had to up jets on nearly every carb combo, including the stock Solexes. It's costing miles per gallon too.
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Hella-Buggin'
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark,

I don't even know of an Exxon . Mobile station around here.
My choices are 76 Union, Chevron or Valero (BP)...

I'll try the 52/145/220 and see what happens.

if it's such an increasing dilemma maybe I should jet up for the ethanol blend.


As far as floats go.... I'm at 11mm right now.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

COUGH RACE FUEL.

stupid ass ethanol, hate that crap. tis why i dont buy gasoline, i down jetted and went with airplane fuel.

or you could run race fuel.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hella-Buggin' wrote:
Hi Mark,

I don't even know of an Exxon . Mobile station around here.
My choices are 76 Union, Chevron or Valero (BP)...

I'll try the 52/145/220 and see what happens.

if it's such an increasing dilemma maybe I should jet up for the ethanol blend.


As far as floats go.... I'm at 11mm right now.


Go to 10mm next chance you get. when I switched to BP here in TN, it lowered my AFR 1.5 whole points under some conditions, which is huge. No telling what you have there.

I am almost certain my mileage went up significantly yet.. too soon to tell but I may have gained about 4mpg which sends me over the 30mpg mark in my bay window, and I don't drive like grandma.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12:1 at idle is too rich! If you do a lean best idle you should be in the low 14s. Your cruise A/F also indicates you can go down at least 1/4 size on the idles, maybe 1/2 size. Make changes a little at a time, you will sneak up on the right tune.

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Hella-Buggin'
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I brought the floats to 10 mm
and will give it a try.

On the 52's I'm twisted out at least 1.5 turns maybe closer to two.
It does feel crisper than the 55's though.
I'll try the 50 Idles next time I pull the carbs and see what happens.

I was incorrect earlier... I was running a 145 Main so I bumped it up to 150
to coincide with the recommended five increase.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do not set idle mixture by turns, set it by what the engine wants. LBI (lean best idle) is to warm it up, turn it so that you are at max RPMs or vacuum, you must listen for 5-10 seconds after the change (1/2 turn at a time) for things to stabilize. After you have found it, I like to go 1/2 turn richer (out). IF you have a wideband on there you'll usually find this is low 14:1.

Any time you change the ignition timing, idle speed, or idle jet, you must re-do the idle mixture.

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Hella-Buggin'
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't go by turns... i was just pointing out that that's where I'm at. Most of the topics I've come across say that the ideal range is between .75 and 1.25 turns in the mixture screws.

So I just went for a drive and here are my results.

I haven't change the idles yet so they are still hovering around 12.
But I can see on the meter exactly when the mains kick in.
My transition is much smoother with the floats set to 10mm.
The meter starts at 12 then gradually leans out as I get into the mains.
Now.... at a decnt load on the freeway I'm getting a reading of around
13.- thru 14.7 at 3200 rpms.
At WOT I'm getting a reading of 14.2 once everything settles into place.

I know I should swap to the 50 idles but should I bump up the main to 155?


If 14.3 is stioch (sp?) then I'm kind of on the fence.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've lost track.. what jetting are you running for those results?
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mharney wrote:
I've lost track.. what jetting are you running for those results?


Sorry:::::

52 idles / 150 Mains / 220 Airs / Floats 10mm
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try 200 air jets, and get those idles down if your AFRs are 12ish in the idle circuit.
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