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Foxx
Uncle Meat
Joined: August 27, 2001
Posts: 4897
Location: at the computer,.......DUH!
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 Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| but we've never had a surplus of great philosophers or thinkers, or anything even approaching a Renaissance. It's not a judgment, just a fact. |
still don't.
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Frank
OG JHC
59 panel
Sarcasm is the body's natural defense against stupidity. i seem to use a lot. |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| I wouldn't take the 'rich in notable history' remark the wrong way. I certainly don't see it as any sort of a slam. Compared to Europe, esp. Italy and Greece which had ancient civilizations, we aren't. We've been rich in entertainment and industrial/ mechanical innovations, but we've never had a surplus of great philosophers or thinkers, or anything even approaching a Renaissance. It's not a judgment, just a fact. |
You know I'm not so sure about that, you have to admit that most versions of "history" are largely biased towards european thinking. I would argue that Civilizations in the Americas, like Aztec, Maya, Incan, and the Mississippian River Delta People were more advanced in some ways than the Greeks and Romans ever were. Much of the reason that the America's have little "historical" value is because their history is still being discovered, while archeology has been going on much longer in other parts of the world. Meanwhile ancient Asian civilizations are also largely ignored, but could have crushed Europe if they had been so inclined.
In terms of thinkers/philosophers, I think that eventually we will have a surplus people of note, but rarely are geniuses recognized for what they are until well after their deaths. as it stands, I think we have a surplus of inventors, not necessarily philosophers. the wright brothers and modern guys like Burt Rutan come to mind.
It's all a matter of perspective. IMO, Europe is overrated. They like to think they're the center of the world when it comes to being historically important.
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richierich
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2004
Posts: 889
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| I wouldn't take the 'rich in notable history' remark the wrong way. I certainly don't see it as any sort of a slam. Compared to Europe, esp. Italy and Greece which had ancient civilizations, we aren't. We've been rich in entertainment and industrial/ mechanical innovations, but we've never had a surplus of great philosophers or thinkers, or anything even approaching a Renaissance. It's not a judgment, just a fact. |
You know I'm not so sure about that, you have to admit that most versions of "history" are largely biased towards european thinking. I would argue that Civilizations in the Americas, like Aztec, Maya, Incan, and the Mississippian River Delta People were more advanced in some ways than the Greeks and Romans ever were. Much of the reason that the America's have little "historical" value is because their history is still being discovered, while archeology has been going on much longer in other parts of the world. Meanwhile ancient Asian civilizations are also largely ignored, but could have crushed Europe if they had been so inclined.
In terms of thinkers/philosophers, I think that eventually we will have a surplus people of note, but rarely are geniuses recognized for what they are until well after their deaths. as it stands, I think we have a surplus of inventors, not necessarily philosophers. the wright brothers and modern guys like Burt Rutan come to mind.
It's all a matter of perspective. IMO, Europe is overrated. They like to think they're the center of the world when it comes to being historically important. |
And America likes to think it's the centre of the world full stop..... 
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| I wouldn't take the 'rich in notable history' remark the wrong way. I certainly don't see it as any sort of a slam. Compared to Europe, esp. Italy and Greece which had ancient civilizations, we aren't. We've been rich in entertainment and industrial/ mechanical innovations, but we've never had a surplus of great philosophers or thinkers, or anything even approaching a Renaissance. It's not a judgment, just a fact. |
You know I'm not so sure about that, you have to admit that most versions of "history" are largely biased towards european thinking. I would argue that Civilizations in the Americas, like Aztec, Maya, Incan, and the Mississippian River Delta People were more advanced in some ways than the Greeks and Romans ever were. Much of the reason that the America's have little "historical" value is because their history is still being discovered, while archeology has been going on much longer in other parts of the world. Meanwhile ancient Asian civilizations are also largely ignored, but could have crushed Europe if they had been so inclined.
In terms of thinkers/philosophers, I think that eventually we will have a surplus people of note, but rarely are geniuses recognized for what they are until well after their deaths. as it stands, I think we have a surplus of inventors, not necessarily philosophers. the wright brothers and modern guys like Burt Rutan come to mind.
It's all a matter of perspective. IMO, Europe is overrated. They like to think they're the center of the world when it comes to being historically important. |
Well, that's because they ARE. Arguing that the Mayans, Aztecs, etc. are more or even equally important to history is like saying Latin is a more important language than English or German or Spanish. Actually, Latin IS more relevant to our languages, because it's an important root, as is Sanskrit, where Native American cultures really were NOT any sort of a building block of who we are. Our culture is based on European thought and innovation. Them's the facts. While the history of these cultures is interesting and well worth learning about from a philosophical perspective, I have yet to learn anything about them that enriches our lives in practical ways. It's more romantic than of actual use. Again, not a judgment call, I'm just being pragmatic.
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kevtherev
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2007
Posts: 897
Location: the 51st state
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: |
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since independence The US hit the ground running, the sheer capacity of this incredibly insatiable continent ,to use existing technologies and develop it's own, meant that the US has not stopped running.
while we, in the UK, once front runners, now stand at the back, jumping up and down hoping to be noticed...America is firmly at the front along with the other great industrial nations and at the front, you can influence and write history.
Civilisations and Empires, Kings, Queens and Emperors, Dictators and Tyrants, Wars, Invasion, Famine, Disease, revolution, migration. Ice ages...
For 10,000 years the tide of human endeavour has ebbed and flowed across Europe and left it's mark upon it's inhabitants and the land they live on.
When I visited the United States way back in 1990 I went for one reason .. to see all the locations, people and cities, I had been bombarded with all of my life....
I left your shores fully satisfied... yet my thirst had not been slaked..I vowed to return .
but this time to immerse ourselves in your past |
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Low_Slow
S@mb@ Pl@y@
Joined: January 30, 2004
Posts: 706
Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| screw Europe |
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15 windowdelux
Samba Goober
Joined: February 06, 2001
Posts: 432
Location: Hastings, Nebraska
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| langsmer wrote: |
| What restaurant do you own in Hastings? |
I don't own the restaurant. I manage the Pizza Hut here in town. And Ioweigan you are absolutely right I forgot about Kool aid man and Coad.
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My last fortune cookie said:
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Luftgekült
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2007
Posts: 388
Location: Canary Islands, Spain
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
It's all a matter of perspective. IMO, Europe is overrated. They like to think they're the center of the world when it comes to being historically important. |
Ha, ha! I believe you think you are the center of the world when it comes to anything else!
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15 windowdelux
Samba Goober
Joined: February 06, 2001
Posts: 432
Location: Hastings, Nebraska
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Just an update, I was out last night for dinner and sitting at the next table was a couple speaking a foreign language( germanic or norweigen in origin). I was so tempted to interupt their meal and ask where they were from and how they ended up in Hastings, NE but I didn't want to bother them. They had been to the Walmart next door and bought something.
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My last fortune cookie said:
"A short saying oft contains much wisdom."
Why is it all I can think about now is George
Carlin's "Seven words you can't say on television"???? |
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