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Boogievan
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Port Orchard, WA.
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 Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:25 am Post subject: Gotta tow some stuff |
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I have recently found myself needing a vehicle that can tow a trailer. (Flatbed and a couple of quads or bikes) Now, I love my Vanagon to death, but I honestly don't think that it's up to the task.
The question that I have is: What about a Eurovan?
How reliable is the older 5 cylinder? How's the power output? Can it handle dragging a trailer around? |
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CF
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2005
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I have recently found myself needing a vehicle that can tow a trailer. (Flatbed and a couple of quads or bikes) Now, I love my Vanagon to death, but I honestly don't think that it's up to the task. |
then you realy don't know the true power of the vanagon
i know people the pull there scamp trailer behind their vanagon..
i pull a trailer behind my vanagon.
the vanagon towing capacity is 2000 lbs 
now the question is are you willing to get it dirty when your done on the dirt bikes / quads?? 
now stoping is a different story..........  |
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hiram6
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006
Posts: 1880
Location: Beautiful South
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: |
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I don't have a Eurovan, but my understanding of them is that the weak point is the transmission. When towing extra weight, guess what component is stressed. Yep, the transmission. With the brakes in second place.
I eventually plan to tow a small sailboat with my Vanagon. I've already added the external cooler to my automatic transmission, and I plan on upgrading my front brakes with the Big Brake kit. Still undecided on the rears, maybe the heavier drum bake set-up offered by VC, or the rear disc set-up from SmallCar. I figure with these upgrades, I could tow my 2000 lb (inc trailer weight) sailboat with relative ease.
An eventual Subie or ABA engine conversion will help in the power department.
In other words, I'm not sure you would be gaining much in the towing department with the EV, I say build up your Vanagon, or look for a real towing vehicle for those times you need that ability.
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning. |
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Boogievan
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Port Orchard, WA.
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice!
I didn't realize the Vanagon could tow that much...
I guess i'll stick with it, and see how it goes. |
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tds3pete
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2004
Posts: 914
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Gotta tow some stuff |
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| Boogievan wrote: |
How reliable is the older 5 cylinder? How's the power output? Can it handle dragging a trailer around? |
The 5 cyl is super reliable with a lot more power than you have now. I haven't dragged a trailer, but my EVC weighs in at 6,000# fully loaded thanks to Winnebago's love of heavy, so were hauling around a bunch more weight than a regular van every day. This car will fly over the Northwest passes at 65+ and I have heard goods things from those who tow with the standard van.
If you really plan to do a bunch of towing, I would stick with the 5-speed on a Eurovan.
_________________
'58 Westy camper-come and gone
'73 Westy-bought new in Holland,now gone
'86 Syncro weekender-come and gone
'79 Westy...Oscar
'95 Eurovan Camper/5 spd...Marsha Mellow |
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oldskewlsk8ter
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 347
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I haul a 5'x8' tilt trailer(old u-haul trailer) with my 4 wheeler, my oldest sons 4 wheeler and youngest sons yamaha pw50 plus all my camping gear and loaded down cooler to my deer lease almost every weekend during deer season with no problems to date. |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| hiram6 wrote: |
I don't have a Eurovan, but my understanding of them is that the weak point is the transmission. When towing extra weight, guess what component is stressed. Yep, the transmission. With the brakes in second place.
I eventually plan to tow a small sailboat with my Vanagon. I've already added the external cooler to my automatic transmission, and I plan on upgrading my front brakes with the Big Brake kit. Still undecided on the rears, maybe the heavier drum bake set-up offered by VC, or the rear disc set-up from SmallCar. I figure with these upgrades, I could tow my 2000 lb (inc trailer weight) sailboat with relative ease.
An eventual Subie or ABA engine conversion will help in the power department.
In other words, I'm not sure you would be gaining much in the towing department with the EV, I say build up your Vanagon, or look for a real towing vehicle for those times you need that ability. |
If you are towing 2000lbs all up, you're trailer needs brakes.. no matter what you put on the vanagon.
Mine is 3000lbs and I use disk brakes,.. surge. They work great and take a great deal of stress of the van.
The other towing problem with the Vanagon is its short wheel base. And there's no fixing that. Tail wagging the dog. The Eurovan should be superior in that regard. But the front wheel drive may offset any longer wheel base gains.
Can a Vanagon tow 2000lbs? Sure. But it is a serious compromise, at best.
Can a Eurovan do better.. my guess is yes, slightly.
They both are well down my list for long hauling more than 1000lbs. of trailer. |
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rblake3
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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This seems to be a common thought lately among some of us. I want to haul my racecar instead of drive it to events but I know the Vanagon will not cut it. So I continue driving my car with a harbor freight trailer on it for my tires and tools. I hate doing that but it works.
We looked at EVs as a dual purpose vehicle but I am leery of a FWD vehicle hauling 3000K. I saw a guy last year hauling a Porsche 911 on a flatbed trailer with a EV and the EV looked like it was not real happy. The front wheels were covered in brake dust and the vehicle just looked laden when the trailer and car combo was on there.
If I could afford a Sportsmobile with pop top I would. However they are way too expensive to justify. Looks like an old Ford E250 Cargo van or something is probably what I will do in the near future. Don't want to give up on the Vanagon though but at the point where I commit to a tow vehicle that can also camp, the Vanagon will probably collect dust and will probably have to go. Hence my reluctance to jump into the dark side.
_________________
90 Vanagon Carat Wander Wagon
88 16v GTi
01 1.8T Beetle
94 Miata
Vanagon H4 E-Code Lighting Upgrade page |
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iceracer
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2006
Posts: 949
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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For yrs I have towed a 63 beetle I race with either a 79 westy bus or a vanagon 2wd or now my syncro. It does the job, just can't be in a hurry. And yes it does tailwag a bit, especially I noticed this with the syncro but my alignment might be off too. Anyway, I have towed up to 2hrs and it always works. Would I go further yes, I just go easy and 60 - 65 mph .
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86 Syncro Wolfsburg edition
63 Beetle (The Iceracer) |
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ThorAlex
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| here in Europe (Norway) the max towing waight of the vanagon is 2000kilos regardless of engine (lots of 1.6td's here). I've seen vanagons towing vanagons end eurovans towing vanagons and never heard of a (towing vehicle related) problem, just take it slow and you should be fine. |
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hiram6
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006
Posts: 1880
Location: Beautiful South
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
| hiram6 wrote: |
I don't have a Eurovan, but my understanding of them is that the weak point is the transmission. When towing extra weight, guess what component is stressed. Yep, the transmission. With the brakes in second place.
I eventually plan to tow a small sailboat with my Vanagon. I've already added the external cooler to my automatic transmission, and I plan on upgrading my front brakes with the Big Brake kit. Still undecided on the rears, maybe the heavier drum bake set-up offered by VC, or the rear disc set-up from SmallCar. I figure with these upgrades, I could tow my 2000 lb (inc trailer weight) sailboat with relative ease.
An eventual Subie or ABA engine conversion will help in the power department.
In other words, I'm not sure you would be gaining much in the towing department with the EV, I say build up your Vanagon, or look for a real towing vehicle for those times you need that ability. |
If you are towing 2000lbs all up, you're trailer needs brakes.. no matter what you put on the vanagon.
Mine is 3000lbs and I use disk brakes,.. surge. They work great and take a great deal of stress of the van.
The other towing problem with the Vanagon is its short wheel base. And there's no fixing that. Tail wagging the dog. The Eurovan should be superior in that regard. But the front wheel drive may offset any longer wheel base gains.
Can a Vanagon tow 2000lbs? Sure. But it is a serious compromise, at best.
Can a Eurovan do better.. my guess is yes, slightly.
They both are well down my list for long hauling more than 1000lbs. of trailer. |
Goes without saying. Surge brakes are a requirement, in my mind, for any trailer that's going to carry significant weight. I sold, last year, a 26 foot sailboat, that, including trailer, tipped the scales at about 4000 lbs. Didn't tow that one with the Vanagon!! Anyway, the first thing I did was tear down the surge brakes of that trailer and completely freshen, adjust, and fine-tune that braking system. Best insurance possible!!
The sailboat/trailer rig I'm eyeing to tow with the Vanagon will come in at around 1900 lbs, and will have surge brakes fitted.
_________________
1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning. |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| ThorAlex wrote: |
| here in Europe (Norway) the max towing waight of the vanagon is 2000kilos regardless of engine (lots of 1.6td's here). I've seen vanagons towing vanagons end eurovans towing vanagons and never heard of a (towing vehicle related) problem, just take it slow and you should be fine. |
Max towing weight and practical towing are two different things.
I have had little trouble moving my 3000lbs boat/trailer with the Vanagon Westy.. the problem is that here in the US, particularly here in California, much travel is on highways.. and if you aren't traveling at 60mph+ (100km/hr+) you are a near hazard on the road...
Now ordinarily I don't give a hoot if someone has to slow down because I am driving the speed limit.. but the Vanagon pulling 3000lbs can not achieve more than 50mph.. and it can't quite stay in 4th gear. Unfortunately you sit in the Vanagon gearing no-mans land at 45-50 mph where the gearing leaves you either screaming high RPMS (3.8-4k) in third or lugging it in 4th (2-2.4k).
Niether is good for the 2.1L WBXr's health. (especially mine with 163k miles on it!  )
And what happens is that the compromise is to drive at 45 mph.. which happens to be 20mph(!) slower than the posted speed limit. Other drivers just aren't looking for a vehicle traveling so slowly.. and you are simply an accident waiting to happen.
Otherwise, I am pretty confident that I could tow the 3000-3500lbs at 45mph all day long ... I have even chugged up some fairly steep San Francisco hills. 20% grades in 1st.
But none of it is done at speed.
Even with the shortwheel base the Vanagon does better than a lot of vehicles othe boatowners use.
We have all manners of rigs hauling yachts in and out of the club.. small Hondas, Subarus, big diesel F350 crew cab duallies. But you sure don't see too many of those small 4 bangers and V6 pulling the bigger 24-30 ft trailerables more than around town. And you don't see them on the ramps.. we small engines look for hoists to splash the boat.
Keep in mind the engine is in the rear.. and backing a sailboat trailer into water with a Vanagon submerges the van... I have not had to do it yet. But the only real option on a ramps to use a winch
Anyway...
US drivers just aren't in tune.
I've been to parts of Europe and the difference in driving attitudes is remarkable. I'd have no problem making my Westy a regular tow vehicle if I lived there. |
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ThorAlex
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
| ThorAlex wrote: |
| here in Europe (Norway) the max towing waight of the vanagon is 2000kilos regardless of engine (lots of 1.6td's here). I've seen vanagons towing vanagons end eurovans towing vanagons and never heard of a (towing vehicle related) problem, just take it slow and you should be fine. |
Max towing weight and practical towing are two different things.
I have had little trouble moving my 3000lbs boat/trailer with the Vanagon Westy.. the problem is that here in the US, particularly here in California, much travel is on highways.. and if you aren't traveling at 60mph+ (100km/hr+) you are a near hazard on the road...
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Guess i forgot about the US speed limits, in Norway 100kmph is the absolute maximum speed limit, and the limit is rarely over 80kmph (45 mph?) outside highways so the speed is much less of an issue here. oh and with a trailer you're not allowed to go over 80kmph anyways. |
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87westy
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2005
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: Towing with my 2001 EVC |
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I used to have a 87 Westy and loved it dearly (unfortunately my wife didn't) and now have a 2001 Eurovan Camper. We also bought a 19' Sea Ray boat that, with the trailer, weighs close to 4,000. The Eurovan pulls it effortlessly at 70+ miles per hours and is extremely stable. We have towed the boat as far away as 400 miles and I almost forget the boat is there. With the Eurovan, the weak link is purportedly the transmission and according to GoWesty, the failure rate appears to be sporadic and most likely due to poor workmanship. As insurance, I have the transmission serviced ever year, and (knock on wood) have had no problems whatsoever. I figure even if I have to spend the $5,000 - $6,000 for a tranny replacement at some point, where else can I find a vehicle that is a daily driver and can pull a boat and provided camping accommodations.
Good luck.
P.S. My neighbor did tow a small 4 x 8 work trailer with her 86 Westy with an automatic transmission and ended up having to have it rebuilt. Who knows if it would have needed rebuilding regardless of the towing? |
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targabill
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2011
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:54 am Post subject: Towing with Westy.... |
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?...
I'm thinking of towing 2 vintage BMW bike's on a super lite aluminum trailer.. Total 1100 pounds.. With my 81' air cooled westy.. Do you think I should add an additional oil cooler? (with fan maybe).. Thinking of 2 - 3hr tows..
thoughts, concerns.. ideas...
thanks, Bill |
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Towing with Westy.... |
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What is the landscape in your area? flat like Kansas & Florida
or Mtns like colorado or california coastal?
are you needin to be on the interstate ? and at what speed are you expecting to maintain?
what time of the year? weather & average temperatures?
sure it'll do it, but neither you or the van may really like it.
the aircooled engine is already labored moving the van under it's own power & weight.
| targabill wrote: |
?...
I'm thinking of towing 2 vintage BMW bike's on a super lite aluminum trailer.. Total 1100 pounds.. With my 81' air cooled westy.. Do you think I should add an additional oil cooler? (with fan maybe).. Thinking of 2 - 3hr tows..
thoughts, concerns.. ideas...
thanks, Bill |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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targabill
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2011
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:29 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, the air cooled has a tough time on hills alone....
But I live in Mass, do trips up to the White Mountains in NH, Northern Vt, NY Adirondacks etc.. Some highways... |
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crukab
Samba Chef
Joined: December 13, 2002
Posts: 6116
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I tow a Rabbit truck trailer (750#s) w/my Doka, I've hauled cement blocks, rocks, wood & just about anything else I don't want to dirty the Doka with....
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Tom
My Pops:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604100&highlight=
I know you will always be with me, rest in peace with no more pain. 8/13/14.....
In the yard right now:
'51 Dodge 5 window truck
'65 Bug
'66 Singlecab
'82 Rabbit Truck Diesel from CALI 
'86 Doublecab W/T
'91 Vanagon carat/wolfsbrg.Tiico
'88 Dodge Ram pickup
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: |
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I've travelled those roads abunch and while in general the main highways in NH & VT are along the notches and rivers,
I don't think I would put that much stress unto the 75hp aircooled engine.
as mentioned already taxed enough to propel the van alone.
I've owned more than one of those as well.
| targabill wrote: |
Yeah, the air cooled has a tough time on hills alone....
But I live in Mass, do trips up to the White Mountains in NH, Northern Vt, NY Adirondacks etc.. Some highways... |
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| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Borg
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 120
Location: Western Washington
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I've hauled my F650 around a number of times. Handling has been fine, there is a 2.2 subie under the hatch so I can't comment on how an air-cooled motor would fare.
Steve |
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