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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9937 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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No 215 tire clearance problem on a Syncro, plenty of room. No spacers needed, just bolt them on.
Even a 2wd can run 215/65/16 tires without spacers with ET37 with 6" - 7" width wheels. Slight grinding of the very edge of the upper arm is helpful. That is what I do on 2wd vans for ET37 as long as the 16" rims are 7" or less.
Mark
izzydog wrote: |
Thanks Chris and Oddn.
Now the million dollar question is whether or not these will fit up without spacers at ET37 and 215 tires... |
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T3 Pilot Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011 Posts: 1507 Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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Thanks crazyvwvanman,
That is what I found, my goal was to mount a 16" wheel with a 215 series tire and no spacers on a 2wd. The MB wheels that I installed are 7" wide
I will be installing slightly taller 215/60 R16 tires for the added gearing advantage, but I was concerned about the suspension clearance potential and had the 215/55 tires sitting around.
Basically then, as long as the tire sidewall clears that critical Upper control arm by a couple of mm then the 215 series mounted on a 16"x7" ET 37 wheel fits on a 2wd Vanagon without spacers.
I am still wondering if the sidewall clearance could become an issue with various tire styles for example raised lettering on the inner sidewall touching the upper control arm. I suppose that is why you referred to the slight grinding of the UCA. _________________ 1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5391 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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With reference to your reply a few posts up to user rheinheitsgebot about his wheel selection, you refer to them working but fitting better with spacers and I would like to know if that is because of variance in clearance among different tire brands of the same tire series. |
Yes, that's definitely part of it. My thoughts are that for the general person, putting together a hardware package that will allow them to make worry-free changes in the future in regard to tire brand, tire size, brakes, upper ball joints, etc. without having to worry at all about whether or not they will have clearance issues is important. If I were to suggest that a person install a set of wheels/tires that only gave them 3mm of clearance and they bought a new set of tires in the future (even in the same size) that caused the tire to rub on the upper control arm, most people would be upset by this. This exact thing has happened. I feel it's better to initially create just a bit of extra room so that those types of things are not an issue in the future.
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Understanding that clearance of the wheel rim to the UCA needs to be addressed by using stick on weights, what is acceptable clearance of the tire sidewall to the UCA? |
I have run as little as 3mm with no problems, but that's pushing things to the limit in my opinion.
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Basically then, as long as the tire sidewall clears that critical Upper control arm by a couple of mm then the 215 series mounted on a 16"x7" ET 37 wheel fits on a 2wd Vanagon without spacers. |
Yes, this is correct! The problem lies in the inconsistency of all of the related components. Sometimes the combination of parts adds up to giving you lots or room and sometimes you have no room at all. I have noticed inconsistencies in tire width, wheel offset (ET37, for example, is not always exactly a 37mm offset), rotor dimensions, upper ball joint placement, etc. It all adds up.
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I am still wondering if the sidewall clearance could become an issue with various tire styles for example raised lettering on the inner sidewall touching the upper control arm. |
Yes, definitely!
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I suppose that is why you referred to the slight grinding of the UCA. |
Not to speak for Mark, but yes, that's exactly what he was referring to. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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T3 Pilot Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011 Posts: 1507 Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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Thanks Christopher,
That really makes things crystal clear. These days I have the spare time to experiment with wheels and tires so playing with different tire sizes and types has become an expanding part of the Vanagon hobby/addiction. I can see where a Van driver that needs it to "just work" would benefit from the greater clearances and options that your advice would allow for.
Fahrvergnügen
Hat Tip to Crazyvwvanman too. _________________ 1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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izzydog Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
No 215 tire clearance problem on a Syncro, plenty of room. No spacers needed, just bolt them on. |
Thank you, Mark.
Does this also mean that I won't need to use longer studs or is that wheel-dependent? I've not seen those Passat wheels in person so I don't know how much stud length they use up. |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5391 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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izzydog wrote: |
Does this also mean that I won't need to use longer studs or is that wheel-dependent? I've not seen those Passat wheels in person so I don't know how much stud length they use up. |
It's definitely wheel dependent, but the Passat wheels are about 10mm thick and will work with the stock studs if you use the correct small ball seat lug nuts. If you try to use the large ball seat lug nuts, you will not get enough thread engagement because they do not seat deep enough into the wheel. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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rubbachicken Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: socal
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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the center bores need to be machined, even on a syncro, the lip on the bearing housing, that the rotor sits on protrudes, with a spacer you will not need to modify the wheels.
izzydog wrote: |
Anyone tried these Passat wheels before? (apologies if this was previously posted - I looked through Part I&II but I didn't see them)
They are ET37 and they will go on a Syncro.
Center bore needs to be larger but will I need to drill the lug holes?
Would this wheel use small ball seat nuts/lugs?
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_________________ lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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izzydog Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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Rubbachicken - are you saying that these wheels will fit with no center bore machining if I use a spacer? Wouldn't that mean that I'd have to use longer studs? |
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HackAl Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2016 Posts: 338 Location: Bergen County, NJ
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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Anyone know which other vehicles the 14" OEM wheel fit, if any?
Is there a market for them outside of the Vanagon community?
_____________________________________________________
Edit: a search for "5.5Jx14 ET35" "5x112" only turns up Vanagon.
This trailer wheel is the closest I get: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/trailer-wheel-5-5Jx14-5x112_465178079.html
Thanks. _________________ 91 Westy.
Ever consider temporarily trading your van? Join the list. |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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Years ago I owned a '73 Mercedes 220D onto which I swapped the wheels from my first Vanagon, an '82 diesel ASI camper. Here's a '62 190D with a Carat rim just for shits n' giggles. The lug bolts would need to be sourced for a safe install.
_________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Last edited by Zeitgeist 13 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:04 am; edited 2 times in total |
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OddN Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2010 Posts: 690 Location: Northern Norway
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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Old Mercedeses are the only cars I can think of as well. Old enough to have 14 inch wheels as standard. Like W114, W115, W116, W123 and some early W126. If they originally had this wheel:
The Vanagon wheels should fit, given the correct lug bolts are sourced of course. _________________ 1991 VW Multivan syncro 1,9 TD |
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Vanderbuilt Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2011 Posts: 64 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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I found these on CL for $150. Considering them for my '80 air cooled Westy. Anything I should be aware of? Seems like a good deal. They're 16x7's, ET45. Assume I'll need 15mm spacers. Not sure about lugs. Any good tire recommendations for as close to stock diameter as possible?
Thanks.
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5391 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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Vanderbuilt wrote: |
I found these on CL for $150. Considering them for my '80 air cooled Westy. Anything I should be aware of? Seems like a good deal. They're 16x7's, ET45. Assume I'll need 15mm spacers. Not sure about lugs. Any good tire recommendations for as close to stock diameter as possible?
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Yep, spacers front and rear as well as new rear studs and new lugs front and rear. You would have to have the center bores opened up to 66.56mm. You could save the lip that helps keep the center caps in place, but you would still need to do some finagling to get the front caps to fit. A fellow member on here cut the original cap mounting tabs off and used five strong magnets per cap and registered them off of the front lug bolt heads to keep the caps in place. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Vanderbuilt Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2011 Posts: 64 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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Thanks Chris. He says these already have opened center bores which is one of the reasons I'm considering them. Save a little money. As far as tires, do you have any recommendations for close to stock? With 15mm spaces I shouldn't have any issues with UCA clearance? Also, good idea on the magnets. I'm sure I'll come up with something for the caps no matter what. |
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makina Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 5 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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I need help asap please, I have a 1984 gl I found the perfect rim design that I want, just want to know if I can make this possible so the rims I found are BBS from a BMW 5X120 I usually read through a bunch of these thread a will back I'm afraid there going to sell. Any help is greatly appreciated thanks |
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campism Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 4492 Location: Richmond VA
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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5x120 BCD will not fit without adaptors. Vanagon is 5x112. _________________ '87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
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bajaleo Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2009 Posts: 211 Location: San Juan Capistrano, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two / A question re 19" Fitments |
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A question for Chris,
I agree with an earlier post of yours, where you say that you like the look of 19's on a Vanagon.
In my frequent search of Craigslist, the 19 inch MB or Audi/VW wheels are all a minimum of 8-1/2" wide.
Is 8-1/2" REALLY not possible, or are there ways to make them fit?
BTW, I'm personally running SA hubs on the front. _________________ Leo in San Juan Capistrano
1984 Wolfie Westy, Subaru EJ22 powered. |
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bettingonvans Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2017 Posts: 85 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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I found some ET47 VW steel wheels locally which are center bored for a Vanagon's grease cap. It seems to me a 15mm thick DR type spacer from H&R should let me use these. Can anyone confirm this for my '90 GL?
The reason I'm a bit confused is that those DR spacers look like they have a center boss. It's my understanding that Vanagon wheels are centered by the lugs - so why the boss? Could the spacer be flat with no boss? |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5391 Location: PNW
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two / A question re 19" Fitments |
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bajaleo wrote: |
A question for Chris,
I agree with an earlier post of yours, where you say that you like the look of 19's on a Vanagon.
In my frequent search of Craigslist, the 19 inch MB or Audi/VW wheels are all a minimum of 8-1/2" wide.
Is 8-1/2" REALLY not possible, or are there ways to make them fit?
BTW, I'm personally running SA hubs on the front. |
I apologize that I missed this question earlier.
Anything is possible. I mean, if you wanted to mount 10" wide front wheels, you can do that, but it would take a whole bunch of work. Running 19x8.5" wheels on the front is possible, but may not be practical, especially if you plan to lower your van. You can modify the tips of the upper control arms for a little more clearance, but often that goes above and beyond what people want to tackle. It all depends on what compromises you are willing to live with and the extent you are willing to go in order to achieve your goal. The further outside the "norm" you go, the harder it becomes to make things work properly. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5391 Location: PNW
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate Wheel Post - Part Two |
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bettingonvans wrote: |
I found some ET47 VW steel wheels locally which are center bored for a Vanagon's grease cap. It seems to me a 15mm thick DR type spacer from H&R should let me use these. Can anyone confirm this for my '90 GL?
The reason I'm a bit confused is that those DR spacers look like they have a center boss. It's my understanding that Vanagon wheels are centered by the lugs - so why the boss? Could the spacer be flat with no boss? |
It depends on the size of wheels, but 15mm spacers might work. Then again, you may need to go a bit thicker. It just depends.
The lip spacer is designed to keep the wheel centered. Yes, the Vanagon is lug-centric, but having a hubcentric situation is always a better way to go whenever it can be achieved. I have better spacers than the H&R for less money and we can customize the lip on the spacers if necessary to match your wheels. _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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