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Differences in ECU between the years?
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russwiththebus
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Differences in ECU between the years? Reply with quote

My situation is that I have a 1978 Westy with a transplanted engine. The block came from an air-cooled Vanagon but the heads are correct for the year model. Previous owner installed a center-mounted Weber carb, and I am in the planning stages of making it fuel injected again.

I've amassed a bunch of new and used parts to use, and I almost have everything I need. My question is, I have two ECUs here that have different part numbers and I want to know what the difference is, and/or if it matters which one I use.

Here's the first ECU I have, it's the original from the 1978 bus. VW part # 022 906 021 AG (Bosch part # 0 280 000 166) with a purple sticker.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The thing is that it rattled when I pulled it out, so I opened it up to discover why. It looks like one of the little black star-shaped heat sinks (at least I think they're heat sinks) is unglued on the far left. Here's a close-up of the piece.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Is it a problem to leave it off, or can it be re-glued perhaps?

Now on to my second ECU. This one came out of a box of parts I bought from someone. I think his bus is a '76 and that's what the majority of these parts came off of. His ECU has a different part number, 0 399 060 21B (Bosch part # 0 280 000 178) and has a black label. When I opened it up, I was surprised to find a second PCB inside, screwed down.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It connects to the other PCB via a few wires on the side.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So what's the deal? Are they functionally the same, despite their differences? Can I use either one on my bus, or does it have to be matched to a certain part, like the AFM or something?

Thanks.
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MadMax78
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECU, CU 102 X - 039 906 021 B
Volkswagen
1979 Type 2 1970cc (CJ,GE) Except California Manual Transmission
1983-80 Vanagon 1970cc (CV) Except California Manual Transmission

ECU, CU 99 X - 022 906 021 AG
Volkswagen
1978 Type 2 1970cc (CJ,GE) Manual Transmission

Strange, at first I thought it may have had to do with the lambda system on Cali systems, but the ecu part numbers prove they are both fedederal manual transmission ecu's. Maybe it's for the altitude correction switch...? Or do all vanagons have the lambda sensor? Then that board would control the mixture...

Cool pics btw, always wondered how it would look on the inside!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early 76 units did not use the throttle position switches, which many might view as a plus. There are also 6 plug and 7 plug AFM IIRC, and I suspect there were other changes over the years as well. To eliminate problems I would suggest you find a matching set of harness, ECU, and peripherals. Then again I really don't know much about this area and could be all wet.

Last edited by Wildthings on Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly the ECU internal "series resister" since a CA bus doesn't use the one on the firewall?
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vw76westy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im no expert but the ecu, the air flow meter ,harness & injecters
have to all come from the same year in order work right
i have also read that the engine year should also match in order to avoid
problems later
regardless of what year system you choose
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russwiththebus
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All interesting ideas, thanks! As far as I know, none of these parts came from California buses, so I don't know it's lambada. Also the wiring harness I got came with series resistors, so I don't know if that's it either. I do plan on trying to keep everything intact as possible though, so I'll probably go with the '76 ECU first. And luckily they're easy enough to trade out, so that won't be a problem either.

Also I don't believe the L-Jetronic system changed much between '75 and '79, at least for non-California emissions so swapping parts should work. I meant it works off air flow so it's not like it cares how big the engine is or anything.

Either way it should be an interesting experiment getting it working.
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Karl
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: ECU Karl Reply with quote

Only 79 Calif had the O2 sensor and no resistor pack.

I have a box full of ECU's. I used to grab them many years ago.... before I found out how bullet proof they are. Most 'mechanics' do not have a clue that they need to test first. 99% of them are 'parts replacers' and do repairs using the Mossberg Repair Procedure. Shotgun a sh!tload of parts at it til it runs.....

I would test each ECU on my 77 bus to see if it worked. Everyone did. Each year has 4 ECU's..... why? No friggin clue. My bus ran the same with each one!

California Models:

022-906-021K 1974 Automatic

022-906-021L 1975 Manual Trans

022-906-021M 1975 Automatic

022-906-021Q 1976 Manual Trans

022-906-021R 1976 Automatic

022-906-021AA 1977 Manual Trans

022-906-021AB 1977 Automatic

022-906-021AE 1978 Manual Trans

022-906-021AF 1978 Automatic

039-906-021D 1979 Manual Trans

039-906-021E 1979 Automatic

Federal Models:

022-906-021H 1975 Manual Trans

022-906-021J 1975 Automatic

022-906-021N 1976 Manual Trans

022-906-021P 1976 Automatic

022-906-021S 1977 Manual Trans

022-906-021T 1977 Automatic

022-906-021AG 1978 Manual Trans

022-906-021AH 1978 Automatic

039-906-021B 1979 Manual Trans

039-906-021C 1979 Automatic

Vanagon:

California Models:
071-906-021B All Transmissions 1980-1983 (071 plain and 071 E subbed to the 071B!)

Federal Models:
039-906-021E Manual Trans 1980-1983

039-906-021C Automatic 1980-1983
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russwiththebus
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Karl, that's interesting!
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WhirledTraveller
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resurrecting this thread,

I have acquired a bunch of F.I. parts for spares from a 78 Federal Manual Transmission. I have a 77 Federal Automatic.

The AFM has a slightly different part number, as does the ECU.

Does anybody know with certainty weather these parts truly interchange or don't? Anybody know, for example, what the difference is between an automatic and a manual transmission ECU?

Basically just want to know whether these are useful spares worth keeping.
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Karl
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WhirledTraveller wrote:
Resurrecting this thread,

I have acquired a bunch of F.I. parts for spares from a 78 Federal Manual Transmission. I have a 77 Federal Automatic.

The AFM has a slightly different part number, as does the ECU.

Does anybody know with certainty weather these parts truly interchange or don't? Anybody know, for example, what the difference is between an automatic and a manual transmission ECU?

Basically just want to know whether these are useful spares worth keeping.


I am betting your 77 AFM is part number 0 280 200 018 022-906-301B Correct?

Your 78 is part number 0 280 200 020 022-906-301D Correct?

They are one and the same. VW superceded the 018 to the 020 many years ago. If you went to the dealer and tried to buy the 0 280 200 018, they would have sold you the 0 280 200 020.

As far as the ECU's goes. I have run them all in my 77 Westy. They all appear to run the same.

Keep 'em....
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WhirledTraveller
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Karl. You are correct on the part numbers. Good to know.
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asbug
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if I understand correctly,
The AFM doesn't matter if it came from an Automatic or a manual as long as it's a 7 or 6 pin respectively?
Thanks,
My early 76 Westy Automatic Delux has a 1.8L and a worn AFM plate, I have moved over the plate and it runs great now (after alot of work....) and am going to be looking for a better AFM for the thing...
Thanks,
KC Very Happy
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kevin77westy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kcandthez wrote:
So if I understand correctly,
The AFM doesn't matter if it came from an Automatic or a manual as long as it's a 7 or 6 pin respectively?
Very Happy

I have read it does matter but I have an auto and a manual and they don't seem to care which AFM is on them.. I've also interchanged lots of parts from different years when troubleshooting or putting FI on a bus and I have yet to have a problem crossing years as long as there are the right number of pins.. Just my experience, I am not a FI expert but I've taken three buses back to FI and each completed "mixed year" system has run great after a little troubleshooting and tweaking. Now if I can just fix all the mechanical problems!
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Karl
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kcandthez wrote:
So if I understand correctly,
The AFM doesn't matter if it came from an Automatic or a manual as long as it's a 7 or 6 pin respectively?
Thanks,
My early 76 Westy Automatic Delux has a 1.8L and a worn AFM plate, I have moved over the plate and it runs great now (after alot of work....) and am going to be looking for a better AFM for the thing...
Thanks,
KC Very Happy


No. You cannot use any 7 pin AFM in a mid 76 to 78 and 79 Fed bus. Only the 018 or the 020. 79 Calif is 7 pin but it is only for the one-year-only 79 Calif version. It is part number 0 280 200 022.

Also you cannot use Vanagon AFM's which are also 7 pin:
0 280 200 025 80 Calif which subs to
0 280 200 030 80-83.5 Calif
0 280 200 028 80 Fed which subs to
0 280 200 032 80-82 Fed
0 280 200 038 82 Fed
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Vamstad
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn Karl, that is good information for me!! Cool

I have a new, rebuilt AFM from a buddy that has the 018 part# that he was unable to return due to an open package (for his 77 FI bus).

Thinking that I had an AFM issue on my 79 FI Federal bus, I installed it (took out the stock 020)...did an idle speed adjustment (dwell and timing fine) and my bus ran like a champ! We are talking a real "smooth operator".

When I paid closer attention to the part numbers on the box (from fuel injection corp) I was surprized to find the part number difference. I was really, really close to purchasing a different AFM to match my bus exactly....until I read your post.

Just to confirm, you mentioned that a 020 would work in the place of a 018. How about the reverse of this (018 rebuild in place of the stock 020) like my setup?

Thanks again!
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vw76westy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i also want to know if the 018 is usable in a 77-79 bus
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1977_L63H_P27
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vw76westy wrote:
i also want to know if the 018 is usable in a 77-79 bus


Two post' above this one...

Karl wrote:
You cannot use any 7 pin AFM in a mid 76 to 78 and 79 Fed bus. Only the 018 or the 020.


Not trying to be a smart a__. Just pointing out the obvious. Peace!
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asbug
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kar wrote:
No. You cannot use any 7 pin AFM in a mid 76 to 78 and 79 Fed bus.

Karl,
Since my August 1975 Build '76 model has a 1.8L with an early L-Jet system, and has a 6 pin AFM, can any old 6 pin work on my system?
You seem to be in the know on these things.
I appreciate your time,
KC Very Happy
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dweomer21
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karl, are you getting your info from any place in particular, or just from general past experience? I ask because I'd like to know if this AFM on ebay (ref. Carter part# 349-028) would be compatible with my '82 Fed. M/T Camper (my current damaged AFM # is 280 200 028 / 071 906 301A).
I don't mind doing the research myself, if I knew where I could cross-reference part #'s and such. Also, I don't want to fork this thread too much, or get off topic; if I crossed the line there, my apologies Wink
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davis911s
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what about for a 75 AUTOMATIC? Are these interchangable or a one year only?

Shawn
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