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Is Raby’s “Camper Special”, Special ?? Must read !!
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(why didnt I listen?)


The same reason why thousands of others have not awaken to the fact that this engine is worth more than the price it costs. They soon realize it and then its too late, or they sopend all that money over again to buy happiness.

BUT if you listen to others, its nothing "Special" and deserves no respect and the guy that designed it and sells it is a pure, egotistical jerk!
LOL
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gs2
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake,

Over the last few years I have read many of your posts around the internet, and I must say I am impressed. While I do not always think that you handle situations professionally I do understand why you react the way you do in some cases.

One of my biggest complaints about many in the type 4 community is the lack of willingness to share information to the general public. I understand many people make a living from their knowledge and have a lot of money invested into what they know, but not sharing your knowledge only keeps people away from the type 4's.

How many times have you heard people complaining about how difficult it is to build a reliable type 4? How many times have people switched from a type 4 to a type 1 because they understand it better? Why do people say they aren't reliable? Why do they switch to type 1? because the people in the know in the type 4 community are unwilling to share knowledge. When a question is asked the simple response is send it to me and I'll take care of it, or this is the guy you want to do the work for you.

The type 1 community is much different, people are willing to tell you how to do something and if you feel comfortable trying it you can, if you don't feel comfortable then you figure out who to send it to. The professionals in the type 1 community feel no need to withhold information from the public, they know they are good at what they do and are not so insecure about there knowledge that they hold it all to be a big secret. While I am sure every one out there has there own techniques that they do not share they still tell you how to do a general procedure.

I really do believe the bigshots in the type 4 world make a top notch product and deserve every penny they charge, but I am shocked that they do not realize that the only way to bring more people to the type 4 is to share some knowledge.

Now I must say that I have not read much from your own forum, perhaps there is more info shared there. I must also say that I am talking about many people in the type 4 community with my comments above, I only addressed the comments to you because you have the influence to make a change in the community. I am not attacking anyone, I am just stating what I see from where I sit.

I understand that what you produce is top notch and nothing currently on the market even comes close. I do plan on purchasing from you but I would be a lot prouder of an engine that I built, that I did the calculations on, that I did the prep work on. To me it is like restoring a vehicle, some people spend thousands of hours painstakingly restoring every detail, others spend thousands of dollars paying someone to painstakingly restore every detail. If you pay someone else to do it then you can't really say you restored it. Same goes with building an engine.

George
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Jake,

Over the last few years I have read many of your posts around the internet, and I must say I am impressed. While I do not always think that you handle situations professionally I do understand why you react the way you do in some cases.

Sometimes I do not handle things professionally.. But it is usually when being seriously provoked by someone or some situation that is equally "unprofessional" or just plain disrespectful... Thats just me Smile

Quote:
One of my biggest complaints about many in the type 4 community is the lack of willingness to share information to the general public.

I disagree... Go to the Shoptalkforums and you'll see near 23,000 posts from me alone sharing what we have learned. On my forums today I share things that I learn with anyone that wants to view it.

Quote:
I understand many people make a living from their knowledge and have a lot of money invested into what they know, but not sharing your knowledge only keeps people away from the type 4's.

I disagree on this count as well. The one thing you need to understand is the fact that in 2003 I had someone STEAL my information and post it on their own website verbatim. They then attempted to make a "mirror" of my site selling and creating items that were confusingly similar in appearance as mine. They then went on to copy the DTM cooling system and then I shut them down.

At that moment what I had shared was locked forever, I refuse to not only hand my opponent a weapon to use against me but also hand it to him locked and loaded and thats what I had done. I was foolish in thinking that "VW People" would not plagiarize from me or copy my components. I found that a dirty, rotten scoundrel would do that and that one person cost the VW world a huge chunk of my knowledge.

Learning is expensive. An education at Harvard would have been more economical. People discount this that haven't pulled all nighters picking up parts, changing cams and beating their head against the wall trying to make a thought work. The glass is always much more clear when looking from the outside in!

Also, the thing you must remember is most people who are TIV converts are not "mechanics", 90% of my turn key engine customers don't own a tool box- thats why they come to me. They don't want issues that require repair. Jim is a good example of this.

Quote:
How many times have you heard people complaining about how difficult it is to build a reliable type 4?

Pre 200 it happened all the time. Post 2,000 and in todays world of my engine kit program that is no longer a challenge.

Quote:
How many times have people switched from a type 4 to a type 1 because they understand it better?

Look at the caliber of most of these people. In times past I would believe that you would be more correct, but today the world has awoken to the fact that the TIV is superior.

Quote:
Why do people say they aren't reliable?

Because most can't tune them or they are unwilling to be open to an engine that is different than the TI, not because there is a lack of info. Today most people won't read before they jump head over heels into a project and do it half assed.

Quote:
Why do they switch to type 1? because the people in the know in the type 4 community are unwilling to share knowledge.

I disagree. Not many people really "KNOW" these engines.. The issue with the people that do know is the fact that the education did cost and moreover that they get down right tired of people demanding information for free. Thats why I offer consulting services, I'll share anything you want to pay for and you'll get more than you pay for, but it starts at 250 bucks for the first hour and I'll slam the phone down in a jiffy if you ever so much as hint that I am charging too much for that.

Quote:
When a question is asked the simple response is send it to me and I'll take care of it, or this is the guy you want to do the work for you.

Time is my most precious commodity. I arrive at my shop most mornings before the roosters start to crow at 0500 and I am there until at least 1800, pulling a typical 13 hour day at best. In that amount of time I happen to pop in and make some post on the net but I can't write a page on every simple topic, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE FREAKING ANSWERS ARE IN THE SEARCHABLE DATA BASE!!!!

Quote:
The type 1 community is much different, people are willing to tell you how to do something and if you feel comfortable trying it you can, if you don't feel comfortable then you figure out who to send it to
.

But how valid and accurate are those accounts? Who are the people posting them? Have "they" done it more than once? Have they EVER done it themselves, or have they just "parroted" it from their folder where they read about someone else doing it that was more than likely equally inexperienced? No information is better than bad information and thats what I see posted here and on other forums daily. Unfortunately I can't call people out on all of it, because that just starts debates and then I get pissed off and have to be a jack ass..

Quote:
The professionals in the type 1 community feel no need to withhold information from the public, they know they are good at what they do and are not so insecure about there knowledge that they hold it all to be a big secret.

There is a difference between being secretive and being just plain smart and protecting what you have had to pay for. No one showed us what we know, we could not read it, we had to earn it the hard way.

The TI guys must mass their brain truss because they are all fighting the same bullshit with parts that are made in China and have more issues than a 30 year old, twice worn out component.. When you build an engine that has a lifespan that is measured by the number of 1/4 mile passes it makes because it has an engine case made in a 3rd world country that bleeds oil like a Hemophiliac you need all the help you can get just to make the damn thing run.

Quote:
While I am sure every one out there has there own techniques that they do not share they still tell you how to do a general procedure.

Go to other enthusiast based websites and see what you learn... Look at guys building 356 engines, 911 engines and etc.. Cal Jerry Woods and ask him to give you some specs for a 911 engine.

Now, remember that you are basically stating that a guy that has made well over 75,000 collective posts on the net in the past decade on no less than two dozen different forums hasn't shared enough to help boost the TIV.. Then also remember that this same person has literally released full engine designs on the STF that he wasn't using any longer.. and advised people of what to stay away from when doing their own build in numerous ways.

Did you know that from September 2006- May of 2007 we hosted and paid to produce "4th Dimension Radio" an internet podcast that featured yours truly for 43 episodes that spanned at least an hour in duration?? Did you know that in those shows we included some very detailed information about cylinder heads, engine combinations, and lubrication and even had a multi-part series on cooling systems?? We also covered every aircooled car that we convert for TIV power in it's own show going over the details of the conversion.

All in all thats 12 Gb of "information" that I suppose doesn't exist, since you didn't recognize it.

Quote:
I really do believe the bigshots in the type 4 world make a top notch product and deserve every penny they charge, but I am shocked that they do not realize that the only way to bring more people to the type 4 is to share some knowledge.

We know something you don't.. Thats the fact that when I offered free info to anyone who wanted it about any aspect of the engine for several years that the number of TIV converts and interested parties was the same or LESS than it is today!!!! It didn't matter what we did, or why or how it didn't matter. All that has taken this engine as far as it has was the desire of my team to take it to the next level and spend our time proving what it could do- not how we did it.

If you wish to pin blame on someone, please do so to the VW media. They kept this engine down for years by not covering it enough and even discouraging its use. In 2006 when HVWs came to me to build project "TIV TORQUER" I was flabbergasted that they even called me to do a story on the engine. No one has since and they also don't feature or even picture TIV powered cars.

Quote:
Now I must say that I have not read much from your own forum, perhaps there is more info shared there.

Today, thats the only place I share my detailed info because I can secure it by managing the users and viewers of that forum infinitely while copyright protecting the contents. This helps me should someone decide to make my info theirs and use it against me again later on like in 2003.

On my forum I am even covering the complete build of a 2.9L twin plug, fuel injected street engine that will produce 250 HP in as much detail as possible.

Quote:
I must also say that I am talking about many people in the type 4 community with my comments above, I only addressed the comments to you because you have the influence to make a change in the community.

Who else would you be talking about?? There are only THREE TIV builders in the US, the other two barely know how to use the internet, so I don't know how they could share info in the first place. I am lost wondering who else this could be focused on, other than myself.

Quote:
I am not attacking anyone, I am just stating what I see from where I sit.

Then you should get up, make a lap around the room then sit back down and read all of my 23,000 post on the STF, listen to all 43+ hours of my old 4th Dimension Radio shows and then your view will be so much different that you'll delete your previous post, dig a hole and stick your head into it Smile

Quote:
I understand that what you produce is top notch and nothing currently on the market even comes close.

FINALLY an accurate statement that I can't bitch about!!!

Quote:
I do plan on purchasing from you but I would be a lot prouder of an engine that I built, that I did the calculations on, that I did the prep work on.

...that you have taken the risks with and that you will have to tune without recommendations that are accurate because it is unknown and that you may have to completely reconstruct should you misconfigure it...

Quote:
To me it is like restoring a vehicle, some people spend thousands of hours painstakingly restoring every detail, others spend thousands of dollars paying someone to painstakingly restore every detail. If you pay someone else to do it then you can't really say you restored it. Same goes with building an engine.

And thats the reason I created my engine kit program. I have done the part that you CANNOT do- designed an engine. Anyone can un-box parts or order stuff from a catalog filled with one line descriptions, but those descriptions are worthless.

The engine kit removes guesswork while allowing the builder to just assemble the engine himself while not having the responsibility and fear of goofing up the design. The program is so infinitely detailed that I am now even selling a set of tools designed to assemble the kit completely because most of the assemblers don't own them- because they have NEVER built an engine, or anything else. My program allows them to do this without the BS that comes with making mistakes.

OK, now that I have established all of this I need to get back to editing this weeks "Aircooled Technology Radio" podcast... Its another one of those technically complex broadcasts that gs2 didn't know existed, but you can find it on the Itunes store and download it for free monthly to get the latest news and details from our Type 4 development.

That said, I share what I can, when I can and in the near future week long work shops here at Aircooled Heaven will be available for those that want to learn first hand how this engine works in both a classroom and practical application environment from a team of carefully selected specialists, each with their own area of expertise.


So.. Jim, how is the Bus anyway????
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Blaubus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gs2 wrote:
While I do not always think that you handle situations professionally I do understand why you react the way you do in some cases...

George


(quite a day for the newbies!) when you consider what has been revealed in this topic, it is shocking that anyone would even bring up that Jake might have acted "unprofessionally"- whatever that means! to some people, the term means to act levelheaded after the customer abuses the merchant Rolling Eyes IMO, Jake shows the kind of professionalism he needs to- by working long days to improve his product.

Quote:
I would be a lot prouder of an engine that I built, that I did the calculations on, that I did the prep work on. To me it is like restoring a vehicle, some people spend thousands of hours painstakingly restoring every detail, others spend thousands of dollars paying someone to painstakingly restore every detail. If you pay someone else to do it then you can't really say you restored it. Same goes with building an engine.


a prediction: after you restore your bus, you wont be proud, you'll be tired.
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gs2
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be tired and proud but I'll have restored it, not just spent money, then I'll take a break and start on the second one that is already sitting in the yard.


I'll make this short so we can get back on topic and from here on out I'll address Jake on his forum if I feel the need.

First slow speed internet connection doesn't work with large download files. I know that they're out there waiting for me and soon as get to somewhere that actually has a high speed connection available in the area, I'll download them, until then I'm stuck reading. Edit... I just saw that you will be releasing a CD soon. I'll watch the store and when it is available I'll be purchasing.



Quote:
...that you have taken the risks with and that you will have to tune without recommendations that are accurate because it is unknown and that you may have to completely reconstruct should you misconfigure it...


Why would you discourage someone from attempting to learn, if someone is willing to do the above, and willing to spend the dollars( fully knowing that it would be a lot cheaper just to buy your kit) why not encourage them. That is my point, everyone seems to discourage someone else from getting started. I'm not asking anyone to give away their techniques just to help out from time to time.

You should be able to tell by the number of posts I have actually made, that I don't ask questions a lot I have read a lot over the years, but I have only been a member to your forums for a few months and that is why I made it clear to everyone that I had not read much there. Shoptalk Forums is another story that I may talk about sometime, this is not the place though.

George
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Blaubus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gs2 wrote:


Quote:
...that you have taken the risks with and that you will have to tune without recommendations that are accurate because it is unknown and that you may have to completely reconstruct should you misconfigure it...


Why would you discourage someone from attempting to learn, if someone is willing to do the above, and willing to spend the dollars( fully knowing that it would be a lot cheaper just to buy your kit) why not encourage them. That is my point, everyone seems to discourage someone else from getting started.


Jake isnt trying to withhold this info. IMO... there is no freemason type shroud of secrecy going on here. i think you have mistaken his meaning- perhaps he was saying that if you dont buy his turnkey engine, he cannot be responsible for consequential damages cause by bad tuning or even poor carb/distributor choices. he will help to the extent that he can, but i doubt he can give exact tuning numbers without putting his hands on it directly. perhaps this is why he charges so much for first hour consulting work- his cost of liability & experience are both very high.
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jake! - All!

Anyway - I of course could not resist posting on this topic since this bit here got my attention...

Quote:
The type 1 community is much different, people are willing to tell you how to do something and if you feel comfortable trying it you can, if you don't feel comfortable then you figure out who to send it to. The professionals in the type 1 community feel no need to withhold information from the public, they know they are good at what they do and are not so insecure about there knowledge that they hold it all to be a big secret. While I am sure every one out there has there own techniques that they do not share they still tell you how to do a general procedure.


I totaly - 100% disagree emphaicly. In my experience - it's been the other way around. Usualy it's the Type I community - with their 009 distributors, chrome fan shields, and full flow cases that are kinda stuck up. I've seen MANY a Type I with bad or wrong components on it - and when I start asking why they chose to go with a mechanical distributor with a reputation for not being great instead of a vaccuum one - they give me the hairy eyeball. Or they're too busy talking about how their bug just smoked some ricer. For them its faster faster faster - while shortening the life of the engine.

One Type I guy I know did just that - 1776 in a beetle - in Tucson - with AC - and he complained when the engine lasted only 40k miles.

The Type IV community - we are few and far between - but growing in numbers. I share my knowledge to all who have the type IV - whats best for their engine as far as parts, heads, tuning, exhaust - etc - and 90% of it I learned from Jake. I am MORE than willing to pass on what I have learned - and even tune on the side of the road.

One young lady I knew in Phoenix had her bus on a trip - when she slowed down to 40 on a moderate hill - I had her pull over in front of me - and I tuned her bus right then and there. She was 20+* ATD with a 009 at idle. I set her to around 29* full throttle - and man - she about got whiplash.

Long story short - we all make the choices we do in passing on our information. SOME of Jake's stuff is proprietary - and so you have to pay for it - thats the way it works.

I'd rather pay for it - it lets him develop more goodies if we pay his way Laughing
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Blaubus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:


Quote:
The type 1 community is much different, people are willing to tell you how to do something and if you feel comfortable trying it you can, if you don't feel comfortable then you figure out who to send it to. The professionals in the type 1 community feel no need to withhold information from the public, they know they are good at what they do and are not so insecure about there knowledge that they hold it all to be a big secret. While I am sure every one out there has there own techniques that they do not share they still tell you how to do a general procedure.


I totaly - 100% disagree emphaicly. In my experience - it's been the other way around. Usualy it's the Type I community - with their 009 distributors, chrome fan shields, and full flow cases that are kinda stuck up. I've seen MANY a Type I with bad or wrong components on it - and when I start asking why they chose to go with a mechanical distributor with a reputation for not being great instead of a vaccuum one - they give me the hairy eyeball. Or they're too busy talking about how their bug just smoked some ricer. For them its faster faster faster - while shortening the life of the engine.

Long story short - we all make the choices we do in passing on our information. SOME of Jake's stuff is proprietary - and so you have to pay for it - thats the way it works.

I'd rather pay for it - it lets him develop more goodies if we pay his way



yeah, just consider that Type 1 info has so much garbage to filter thru. you are lucky you wont have to do that with T4.

the reason Jakes info is there at all is because of the "way it works". we pay, he develops products and info. and still he gives away as much as he does...

even in the type 1 world, if you want the good info, you have to pay Gene Berg more than usual for their rock solid sensiblities. why? cuz he did the research and development. not as much as Jake, but still- you see how it works?

you say you want to be proud of your build... consider that if everyone was too proud in the past to let Jake do their builds, then Raby products you currently intend to purchase would not be as good. then you would have less to be proud of. plenty else to be proud of- you got the bodywork, brakes, interior, etc. then you can tell them that you are proud of having supported aircooled engine development.

by the way, i drive a type 1, and believe that they CAN be good motors- depending... but, this is how the type 1 world works- everyone is a "backyard expert". Rolling Eyes and they will all tell you about their stupid way of doing it wrong. most type 1 engines are garbage only because one bad part fouled the whole thing. one Empi or Scat part, and its permaf**ked. case in point:

lately i met a guy who did spectacular body work in a spectacular shop. i was there to buy a type 1 fan from him for a friend. he proceeded to explain to me how the job is done (after i had accumulated 31 years experience). i told him no, the fan could be changed without an engine removal in a 71 bus. he looked at me like i had two heads. later, i walked over and looked at his project. and noticed the beautiful Melling oil pump on his motor. i thought, "should i tell the guy its garbage" nah, too arrogant- BACKYARD EXPERT!

enough said.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and its permaf**ked.
Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake Raby wrote:

So Jim, did it ever drive or perform this good from the factory??? Enquiring minds want to know!!


The thing I remember most about when I first bought this bus, aside from the new car smell, is how quiet and smooth running the motor was at idle. The bus I had before was a 1967 Westy and because of it's fan box it was noisy. Sometimes I would forget the motor was running and I would try and start it again. This "Camper Special" is quieter than that engine was and runs much smoother. Thanks to all the engine balancing Jake and his crew do. This motor has tons more power, the original was a 1700 cc with all the California smog components. This engine is far superior to the original.
The last few days have been warm and humid here and I have been out driving it like I just got my drivers license. I mention warm because I have been driving with the air conditioning on. I have noticed only a slight (maybe one or two degrees) increase in CHT temps. I have been putting this motor through all kinds of tests all with the air conditioning on: driving on the freeway at 85 miles an hour, going up hills at fast speeds, and stop and go traffic. I am extremely pleased with the results. I did not buy the "Camper Special" as a performance engine, I don't think Jake designed it for that, I bought this motor for dependability and peace of mind. At one time in my life my wife and I had discussed getting rid of the bus because we never felt we could go very far from home. We looked at Water cooled Vanagons and later Winnebago Eurovans, but thank God, "The Samba" was born and there was a way to find out about people like Jake. Friends say we will probably be buried in the bus.
The engineers at Volkswagen were brilliant in their design of the type 4 motor. They recognised all the shortcomings of the type 1 and improved on them with the technology of the day and using the leaded fuels and oils that were available. What Jake has done through his research and development is update the type 4 motor to today's gas and oil using today's technology. It really is amazing what he has accomplished with a 30+ year old engine case.
When it comes to price, no it is not cheap, but it is very fair. It is far cheaper than what I have been through. It's like buying software for your computer. The CD and the packaging is probably worth about a dollar, but the code that is on the disk cost millions to produce. Jake's motors are the same. The cost has to cover his time, research, development, parts, gasoline, his shop failures, and a living.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opossum wrote:
[ When it comes to price, no it is not cheap, but it is very fair. It is far cheaper than what I have been through.


"value" is what some folks miss when talking about dollar amounts...those are the folks that Jake doesn't deal with..
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With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone?


GEX has. Just sayin
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - I agree it all comes down to value.

Oh - and the look on people's faces when you pass them at 75-80 on the interstate. Laughing

I've been into old cars for years - Jake has done his homework - and then some. Then he proceeds to live up to a standard of work ethic and dependebility that vanished 50 years ago. Then to top it all off - he lowers his prices when he can, puts MORE time and effort into the design and always tweaking it and making it better and STILL does not jack his prices through the roof.

Is it expensive? Compared to what. Jake develops something NO one else produces in the Type IV comunity - and then continues to give by continuing to develop and improve the engines out there.

I bet in 10 years time - the big topic at all the VW races and community events are the Raby engines and how much better the Type IV is compared to that flimsy type I for dependability and driveability.

Oh wait --- thats already happening... Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good story.

What I don't understand is why Jake has a bad rap. I read a bunch of posts vaguely bashing him for various reasons and saying everything was expensive and this that and the other thing. But as with everything in life, you get what you pay for.

The couple times I've talked with him over the phone or internet (I'm getting heads and a valve train kit from him among other things) he sure doesn't seem like a bad guy to me. He's friendly and talkative and just generally a nice guy.

Anyhow, great story...that's f*cking awesome customer service...and also explains why Jake was out of the office last week when I tried to email him.
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volkswitt
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

me and the kids would make such a mess of that bus!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Jake, how is that Type 2 coming along? My 70 bus would love your magic touch.

No seriously, it would.

Please?
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjalau wrote:
So Jake, how is that Type 2 coming along? My 70 bus would love your magic touch.

No seriously, it would.

Please?

stick a T4 into it and I will... The CS will fit the bill fine.
A T1 engine in a bus is a losing proposition noatter what is done to it IMHO.

As far as a bad rap, well the only people that dislike me are the minimalist that don't care enough about their VW to spend what is required to do the job thoroughly... Or they have been smoked up so long that they have lost touch with reality and the fact this is 2008.

Damn right, what I create isn't cheap- people like Opossum know they have
gotten what they paid for and most get more. The opinions of the people who have paid the price of admission are the only ones that matter to me. The others usually get pissed because their passive way of life inhibits the ability of their wallet to open. That's not my fault.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm sold. Being an owner of two businesses, I can appreciate the effort involved with that level of customer service. When my 90K miles original engine gives it up, it's a Camper Special for me.

I hope Jake hasn't set expecations in the customer service area in the Type IV community that are a little unrealisitc...I can see it now: someone has a leaky push rod tube seal, and if Jake doesn't fly out to fix it...

Hats off to you Mr. Raby. You are absolutely correct--standing behind the product is so much more worthwhile than giving a warranty on paper.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A T1 engine in a bus is a losing proposition noatter what is done to it IMHO.


Man this is harsh especially from a man who will sell you a $150 recipe for a type 1 for a bus. How is the recipe worth this if you really feel this way?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well, I'm sold. Being an owner of two businesses, I can appreciate the effort involved with that level of customer service. When my 90K miles original engine gives it up, it's a Camper Special for me.

I hope it didn't take a post like this to make you well aware of what I have created Smile

Quote:
I hope Jake hasn't set expecations in the customer service area in the Type IV community that are a little unrealisitc...I can see it now: someone has a leaky push rod tube seal, and if Jake doesn't fly out to fix it...

I want to make something VERY CLEAR. This was a unique situation and a unique leak that occured at start up and it just so happened to have occured to one of the most cordial, respectful and friendliest clients I have ever experienced. I have gone over the top on other occasions, but I never put myself in a position where I HAVE to do this and since each engine is as different as it's owner I take the ball as it bounces. If a customer and situation is deserving of this sort of attention, then I **may** do it, but no one will make me do it. Anyone that asks will be denied, no matter the scenario.

Quote:
Hats off to you Mr. Raby. You are absolutely correct--standing behind the product is so much more worthwhile than giving a warranty on paper.

A piece of paper won't make an engine resist failure. What it does is provide a false sense of security for purchasers that make their engine choices based on the wrong "points".

I made the house call to Jim because he was deserving, his bus was deserving and he never made the statement "I paid XXX for this engine and it has a problem".... I have to remind those people that this is a mechanical device made up of hundreds of parts and has been installed by an unknown person and variables do exist. I then remond them how many hours of our lives were sacrificed for the construction of the engine and demand that they put a price tag on that.

Make that to me and the life line has been severed beyond repair!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rsorak wrote:
Quote:
A T1 engine in a bus is a losing proposition noatter what is done to it IMHO.


Man this is harsh especially from a man who will sell you a $150 recipe for a type 1 for a bus. How is the recipe worth this if you really feel this way?


And the first thing I'll tell you is that combo should be freshened up at 40K miles... There is a reason why VW went to the TIV engine and it wasn't because the engine made the vehicle more economical.
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