Eurovan rear brakes vanagon (UPDATED w/ ford caliper/rotor)

a914622 · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:29 am Post subject:

I have a new set up Iv been working on. The plan is to put the new set up on a westy-ginnypig (thanks franklinstower) this week end or soon. An update should be posted soon. Big beefy er rotor and hub centric to the vanagon hub!!

jcl

r39o · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject:

For this new one, do you still have to cut down the hub?
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

Franklinstower · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:40 am Post subject:

a914622 · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject:

No Thats a great right up.

I did find a banjo to flare fitting that would allow the use of a hard line from the pivot of the rear arm, to the caliper. It was on a 90 dodge lancer rear. The hard line would have to be bent. The adapter end is the same threads as the vw but uses the pointed in end. I need to get some Pics to help explain.

The only outher thing is the rotor thickness, 14mm. Its hard to see in the pics but its a beefy rotor.

thanks for your help. Very Happy

jeff l

danfromsyr · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject:

I don't know why you would have to machine the eurovan rotors to 5x112
also do you per chance have the CAD file used? that would be very nice to have/see... or are you looking to offer caliper mounts 4sale.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________

syncrodoka · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject:

My biggest fear in any upgrade is getting replacement parts in the future. I don't like relying on a specific source for something that has the chance of breaking on the road. Rotors are a wear item and they will be replaced in the future and possibly in the road. Replacing a rotor in the future now means finding a machine shop to have them redrilled for the correct bolt pattern. I am in no way knocking your effort at all but this does need to be kept in the back of one's mind.

Franklinstower · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject:

Franklinstower · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject:

syncrodoka · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject:

Yes, you are correct rotors last a long time. I am busy building one of my syncros for long trips and I am thinking of trying to replace parts in BFE from some parts shack. I have heard of rotors failing due to warping or some kind of mechanical damage(heat cycling, wheel coming off etc..). Just trying to think what can be fixed on the road. I am sure that you will enjoy the brake upgrade, as usual updates are always appreciated.

a914622 · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:42 am Post subject:

Yes all the concerns are and have been kicked around. What Iv come up with so far is the best compromise i can think of .

The ford calipers and rotors are used on lots of ford models from 92-2005 including the mustang. The caliper is stunningly close to the vw/audi And parts are every were. rebuilt calipers are 80.00 ish at napa last time i looked.

Given the thickness of the rotors , I felt they would be the least likely to fail. They are very beefy and should be able to get 1 or 2 turnings. And in a pinch i guy could use the wheel as a drill template, mark the lugs on a new rotor and drill 1/2 hole for the lugs plus some slop. There is only .010 a side to make the center hub-centric. In a pinch the lug bolts could pull the rotor over the vw hub. not ideal but in a pinch....

I to am thinking of the long road trip. The question , what if the the middle of the Yokon?? is always what im thinking, because iv been there.

keep them on the road Very Happy

jcl

izzydog · Samba Member Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 665

This all sounds good to me and many thanks to jcl for sorting this all out.

Sooo...how do I get a set of brackets?

Jeff

danfromsyr · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:50 am Post subject:

Like I learned many years ago building and enjoying my baja.
it was in the baja bug survival guide book.

you can only plan for soo many possibilities. bring resourcefulness in your tool box and a pair of vicegrips.

if stranded means you have to walk out, remove the broken part and make it so the vehicle can get you to safety.

unbolt the caliper and maybe even the rotor, remove the brake line and fold over the steel line to reduce or minimize fluid loss.
drive home gingerly on 3 brakes.

and in 10/20/25 years when I can not gather parts from these antique vehicles, I shall make another setup with whatever usees similiar calipers in the junkyards.
you do not think we will ever not have old/parts cars?? not so long as I have my ability to drive..

FWIW I do NOT see the Eurovan 14mm solid or the Audi V8/3B vented rear rotors ever warping.
I have had the fornt rotors on my audi 5000 Turbo quattro (large vented rotor) glowing nice red hot many times.. long story but even the new(rebuilt) calieprs can and do fail.
good pads & Synthetic fluid with no H2o intermixed (change&flush your brake fluid ~24months) kept the car stopping and driving
the rotor never picked up a warble and I did fear for all rubber parts in the vicinity from the radiated heat.

I am not saying that brake rotors don't warp.. sure they could and maybe do. but I will say that it is Likely ALOT LESS often the the service garage says/charges for.
_________________

ThorAlex · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:57 am Post subject:

I don't know anything about brakes and such, but i was wondering: is there any reason why you could not just use stock front disks and calipers on the rear?

240Gordy · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject:

MarkWard · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject:

Yes there was a recall on Audi 5000 calipers. Some were Girling and Some were ATE. Don't remember which, but if a vehicle had one type, they were to be replaced. They would not lock up like you would die in a car crash, but the hand brake mechanism would not release properly. The hydraulic hose boss is in a different locaton on the 5000 vs the Golf rear caliper, but can be solved.
_________________
☮️

pete000 · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject:

Bravo !

Nice Cad work too.
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats

tschroeder0 · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:59 am Post subject:

Hey Franklinstower,

Nice work! and very nice write up. I'm a bit confused in the end on what exactly you used/didn't use. What was modified or not. Do you think you could just write a quick list of what was used and what had to be modified.

The calipers; what model ford did you take them from? Did you install larger studs? Thanks, Todd.

240Gordy · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject:

yes a wrap up post of the part numbers etc would be fantastic.
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

Franklinstower · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject:

This is what i know since JCL did alot of the legwork and parts grabbing: The whole thing goes together very easily with the caliper bracket Jeff made, the Rotor he modified and the Hub modified:

Calipers:
Came on: '93-'99 ford taurus (all models with rear discs); '93-99 Mercury Sable; '93-2000 Lincoln Continental. No modification to the caliper was necessary. I think the brake lines off the calipers were the right thread too - Although JCL will have to tell you exactly which flex brake lines worked the best.

Rotors:
Came on: '93-2006 Taurus; '93 - 2000 Continental; '93 - 2005 Merc Sable. The rotors are 10.1" and 14mm thick-solid rotors. The stock ford bolt pattern is 5 X 108 so Jeff set them up on his CNC to drill a 5 X 112 Bolt Pattern opposite the ford pattern. He also opened the center Bore .010" for a perfect hubcentric fit.

Caliper Brackets - Made by JCL on his CNC

Hubs
Outside diameter was decreased to fit inside the Rotor. I do not know the exact outside Diameter. But he set up an axle in his lathe and cut them down to fit. I think this needs to be done on all Disc Conversions.

Studs
I used 52mm Sway - a Way studs. That is because I have 16" Passat rims and 12mm Spacers. I would estimate the extra thickness of the rotor compared to the stock drum to be only 1-2 mm different if that. So if you have stock steelies I don't think you need to change the studs.

Wheels
I know this set up will fit 15" rims and Larger. I have a lot of clearance to the caliper. It might not fit stock 14" rims I have not mounted one yet.

Brake hoses
I did not modify the hoses at all, except to straighten the hard line that went into the original brake cylinder. I used the stock hose on the caliper. It had the correct female thread to connect directly to the VW hard line.

Brake Cable
I used the stock VW cable switched end for end. I had to add and extra 4.5" spacer to the cable housing underneath the Van were it goes through the rubber grommet thingy (see the pictures in the install thread)

But I am researching some other stock cables from othere cars that might fit without modifying it:

The main issue with the E-brake cable is to have a housing that is long enough so no spacer sleeve is needed. It then can bend at a more natural angle. The stock sleeve is 40" and I think 44-46 is optimum for this conversion. The over all stock cable length is 58" with a 40" housing. So if we go to a 44-45" housing, the difference is 14-13" from cable to housing. The vanagon adjuster had about 3" of threads to play with on the solid rod underneath the Van.

Raybestos part numbers that may fit:

BC93343 - 60.375 X 47.625 - so that is basically a 13" housing to cable delta. should work and the extra length can not hurt as long as there is enough threads on the adjuster. Fits: Bronco 80-91; F150 80-91; F10080-83 all are for the left rear side.
BC93550 - 59 X 44.375 - may be the closest fit I have found. Fits: 1987 Isuzu Trooper
BC94491 - 60 X 47 - Fits: 92-96 Bronco; 92-96 F150 - can't remember whitch side.
BC92863 - 58.25 X 44.25 - Also may be a good fit. Fits: 78-79 Bronco - Drivers side
BC93538 - 59 X 47.1875 - 12" differential between housing and cable - may not fit the adjuster - not sure. Fits: 85-88 Chevy Nova
BC93489 - 57.375 X 45.625 - same as above - Fits: 85-95 Astro Vans and Safaris - should be plentiful in the pull-a-part yards.

I hope this helps. I really like the rear disc set up. The brake parts are cheap and everywhere. Jeff has the Bracket programmed in his CNC so I think he will be making some if he gets enough interest. Probably any machine shop can modify the hubs on a lathe - same with the rotors - it seems easy enough but I am not a CNC programmer!

Paul
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug

a914622 · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject:

Bravo Paul !!!!
Great right up. Let me add what I can.

CALIPERS:
For some reason the hard line end of the caliper is not the same on the drivers and pass side. One is small and fits the vw line one is a size bigger.
There is a crap load of pads that fit.

HUB
Need to be turned down to 5.500. The hub center locates the rotor.

WHEELS
If using longer studs and a 12mm spacer the stocker 14s may fit?? Still need to be worked out.

E Brake cable
Paul has done all the work on this one. Im still looking at the cables to find a year model that fits. 86 isuzu does not.

I will make a few sets if there is enough interest.

thanks again Paul

jcl


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

Eurovan rear brakes vanagon (UPDATED w/ ford caliper/rotor)
Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

	Forum Index -> Vanagon	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Page: Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 2 of 3