Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Tire Safety Question
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jeepwillies
Samba Member


Joined: September 14, 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Calgary, AB
jeepwillies is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:34 am    Post subject: Tire Safety Question Reply with quote

I just finished upgrading my van with the Van-cafe springs, shocks, big brake kit and 16" wheels.

When I took it for a ride last night I thought it felt like there was a bit too much sway in it. While heading straight down the road I started turning side to side and thought there was excessive body roll.

Now my worry is that the 16" tires I bought do not have the sidewall strength they should have. I would appreciate anyones opinions on this.

They are Michelin LTX M/S P215/70R-16 99S.

EDIT - You know one thing that I never checked (it was a late one last night) was the tire pressure! I have the wheels balanced at some small shop before I had the van all together.
EDIT #2 - Also I have not had an alignment done since the upgrades.

Cheers!
Dave
_________________
87 Automatic Westy TDI'd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Randy in Maine
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34814
Location: The Beach
Randy in Maine is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need better tires as those are car tires (standard load) and will only hold 35 psi of air.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jeepwillies
Samba Member


Joined: September 14, 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Calgary, AB
jeepwillies is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhh, no way!

That sucks I just bought them, and thought because of the 99 load rating that they were up to the task.

Dave
_________________
87 Automatic Westy TDI'd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
riceye
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1493
Location: Caledonia, WI
riceye is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What were the previous tires?

A weight rating of 99 is enough to fulfill the weight requirement of your Westy. Others will argue that you need a reinforced sidewall, and pehaps that's true, but based on the weight rating, that is plenty of tire.

I'm running 225/60-16's with a 98 weight rating, and it rides great. Much better than the reinforced 14's they replaced.

Get it aligned, and bump the pressure up to 35psi, and see how she does.
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mightyart
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6179
Location: Portland, Oregon
mightyart is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
You need better tires as those are car tires (standard load) and will only hold 35 psi of air.

I'd take them back an tell them they sold you the wrong tire for your van.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
riceye
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1493
Location: Caledonia, WI
riceye is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact, according to TireRack.com that is a reinforced light truck tire.
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jeepwillies
Samba Member


Joined: September 14, 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Calgary, AB
jeepwillies is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I bought these from Discount tire based on the following:

The premium, all-season light truck tire for those who spend a lot more time driving on the road than off. But even though it has exceptional highway manners, the LTX M/S delivers the ruggedness of a light truck tire with excellent wet and snow traction.

•Third steel belt in D and E load ranges provides greater puncture resistance and durability.


Dave
_________________
87 Automatic Westy TDI'd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
riceye
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1493
Location: Caledonia, WI
riceye is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not an inexpensive tire, either!
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jeepwillies
Samba Member


Joined: September 14, 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Calgary, AB
jeepwillies is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I had no intention of "going cheap". I just wanted and thought I had bought myself a good quality tire.

The part that worries me is that the max tire pressure seems low for a Westy??

Dave
_________________
87 Automatic Westy TDI'd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Gauche1968
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2006
Posts: 1452

Gauche1968 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

35 Psi isn't even close to the tire pressure specified by VW for Vanagons: 39 front, 48 rear. Of course, there is a lot of debate about this. When i first got my van the shop that got it through inspection put standard load car tires on it max psi 35. It felt like I was driving on mush. After upgrading to the correct spec tires, the van handles so much better, it even feels as if it has power steering now. Exclamation
_________________
1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
riceye
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1493
Location: Caledonia, WI
riceye is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree about the pressure. Mine have a max pressure of 44 psi, although I usually run 35-40.

At the price you paid, I think a discussion with the Store Manager at Discount Tire would be in order.

You may want to print these pages out to take with.

Good luck!
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PDXWesty
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 5718
Location: Portland OR
PDXWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Tire Rack Link, some of the tires are "C" rated and some "SL". I think the "C" rating is correct but I'm not sure what the "SL" rating is. Anyone?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Randy in Maine
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34814
Location: The Beach
Randy in Maine is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SL = Standard Load = car tire

Here is how it works (stolen from Karl in the baywindow sticky on Tires)

ANY PASSENGER tire you put on a bus MUST have the max load weight divided by 110%. THAT is FEDERAL LAW!!!!

S4.2.2.2 below. And then you need to read S4.2.2.3(a) after that.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/05dec20031...71.110.htm

S4.2.1 Tire load limits for passenger cars.
S4.2.1.1 The vehicle maximum load on the tire shall not be greater
than the applicable maximum load rating as marked on the sidewall of the
tire.
S4.2.1.2 The vehicle normal load on the tire shall not be greater
than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's
recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
S4.2.2 Tire load limits for multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks,
buses, and trailers.
S4.2.2.1 Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load
ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR
of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label
required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than
one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR
corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.
S4.2.2.2 When passenger car (P-metric) tires are installed on an
MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by
dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the
maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.
S4.2.2.3 (a) For vehicles equipped with P-metric tires, the vehicle
normal load on the tire shall be no greater than the value of 94 percent
of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended
cold inflation pressure for that tire.
(b) For vehicles equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on
the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the
vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that
tire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jeepwillies
Samba Member


Joined: September 14, 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Calgary, AB
jeepwillies is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
ANY PASSENGER tire you put on a bus MUST have the max load weight divided by 110%. THAT is FEDERAL LAW!!!!


Well lucky for me I live in Canada so that Federal Law does not apply to me! Smile

Just kidding, thanks everyone for the info, it's much appreciated.

Cheers!
Dave
_________________
87 Automatic Westy TDI'd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
riceye
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1493
Location: Caledonia, WI
riceye is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SL=standard load. The P-metric sizing designation indicating that the max weight capacity of the tire is at 35psi. An xl (extra load) tire will have a higher max pressure, and thereby a greater max load.

Load range C, D, E etc are truck tire weight ratings. A load range C will (generally) have a max pressure of 45psi, a D will be 60, an E will be 75, and so on.
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
levi
Samba Member


Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5248
Location: Las Vegas
levi is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These have a max load of 1709, less 10% if these are car tires, which I thought was indicated by the P designation, (could be wrong on that though), gives about 1530 pounds max load, and I believe we need a minimum of about 1850?

Although the LT does designate Light Truck, yes? So much for what I thought the P was. Still, 1709 is a long way off 1850.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40


Last edited by levi on Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
levi
Samba Member


Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5248
Location: Las Vegas
levi is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's something interesting..
On Larry Chase's site http://www.roadhaus.com/tires.html
He shows a Michelin LTX m/s in the 16" category, 225/70 r 16 ,
with a load index of 101, and max tire pressure of 1819, and even THAT one doesn't meet specifications.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 40991

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Michelin LTX M/S 195R/14 have a 50 psi rating and exceed the axle load rating of my Multivan, yet have only a 93 rating. These are the best tires I have had on any of my Vanagons excepting maybe the 205/75R-14R it came with new. I have run several sets of 195R/14 load range C or D tires and found them to be dangerous in mountain curves and in cross winds, the car tires I have run have handled better, but didn't wear well. These Michelins light truck tires ride a little rough when lightly loaded and cost a bundle, but other wise seem first class. You can add or remove 1000 lbs of load without any change in the handling which is nice. No change is air pressure necessary to accommodate load unless you are driving a long distance.

I have found that with the 195R/14 8 plys Hankooks I have on my 83 1/2 Vanagon that I have to change the pressure in the tires if I add or remove even 500 pounds from the van. With the Hankook truck tires if the pressure is too low for the load it wallows badly and it too high it under steers badly. IMHO the Michelins are a safer and better tire even if their load rating is not as high as the Hankooks.

I can't imagine that the Michelin tires you have bought aren't well suited for your van.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tschroeder0
Samba Member


Joined: April 14, 2008
Posts: 2027
Location: Boulder CO
tschroeder0 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used the michelins for years on my 85 weekender fully loaded in all conditions and they have performed great, I have seen them on many vans over the years and have never heard anyone say anything else.Todd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Randy in Maine
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34814
Location: The Beach
Randy in Maine is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

levi wrote:
Here's something interesting..
On Larry Chase's site http://www.roadhaus.com/tires.html
He shows a Michelin LTX m/s in the 16" category, 225/70 r 16 ,
with a load index of 101, and max tire pressure of 1819, and even THAT one doesn't meet specifications.


The max air pressure at 34 psi is inadequate on that tire.

I can't find a Michelin in 195R14 at any of my sources (including Michelin). Point me someplace....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB